Eric's MK7 Golf R (2016) Build Suspension + BigTurbo

[Uffda]

Im sorry but I don’t think you have a clue about this stuff. You should probably not post about things you know nothing about.
The problem you had with your “intake manifold” has happened to others. Its from the shitty PR inserts from their mpi kit.
Secondly, you really seem to point out the UM tune is not a “ one size fits all” tune. Well i can tell you i know three people with APR stg3+ kits. One is a complete apr kit on a stock golf r. 10.8@127 on 94 octane with rear rear and pas seat out. He has NEVER had a problem. Installed the kit and drove the car. Super easy. Super realiable. Problem free.
The other two people did the oem wastegate swap and, like you, had issues with boost ( due to the angle of the wg arm). After having to fuck around and fix shit they finally got them running ( on the same fueling system you run) and are running similar times as the other guy but the are running e30/40 or race gas.
My point is that all the BS you went thru could have been avoided by running the reg apr software. Do you actually believe that UM would tell you the apr stuff is ok and don’t bother with their product.
I do agree that the apr file runs alot of boost and that scares some people but lets be honest the “ safe” torque level UM is giving younis also going to drastically reduce the life of the engine. Anyone going big turbo and pushing 30ish psi should be prepared for a motor build.

Actually, your wrong about the APR kit. I used a factor APR kit and pretty much everything it came with did not work. Under fueled based on the amount of boost in the stock APR tune. I have nothing on my car APR now sans the front sway bar, dog bone, pendulum, and exhaust. Everything else I ended up replacing. I would not do it again and just pay the money rebuild my lower and go straight brand new APR kit and see what happens.... The thing is the fuel drop off was happening low in the boost ranges like 22 psi. I just don't trust APR anymore after talking to them directly and seeing what shoddy crap they push out. My APR end links are in the trash or shelf at the shop now. They were replaced because the joints were giving out under 2k miles. I ended up labor parts etc well over 27K on this build. I love it but I would have prefered a reliable single kit solution for sure. And for the MK7 APR Stage III is not it.

 

[THEREALVRT]

Actually, your wrong about the APR kit. I used a factor APR kit and pretty much everything it came with did not work. Under fueled based on the amount of boost in the stock APR tune. I have nothing on my car APR now sans the front sway bar, dog bone, pendulum, and exhaust. Everything else I ended up replacing. I would not do it again and just pay the money rebuild my lower and go straight brand new APR kit and see what happens.... The thing is the fuel drop off was happening low in the boost ranges like 22 psi. I just don't trust APR anymore after talking to them directly and seeing what shoddy crap they push out. My APR end links are in the trash or shelf at the shop now. They were replaced because the joints were giving out under 2k miles. I ended up labor parts etc well over 27K on this build. I love it but I would have prefered a reliable single kit solution for sure. And for the MK7 APR Stage III is not it.

Sounds like an install issue on the fuel pump. Again, i only know one guy personally with the full apr stg3+ kit and his kit worked flawlessly. Countless 1/4 mile passes and several 1/2 mile events, highway pulls etc. All on a completely stock 16r with the apr kit.
The other 2 guys i know running the apr kit with oem wg had issues with boost due to modded wg arm. Neither of them had fueling issues.
Again, i think your shop fucked up on the install of some of your parts although the ghetto PR mpi inserts have failed on other people too.

 

[THEREALVRT]

Call APR your self. They told me they stopped selling the kit for the Mk7's because they were blowing peoples cars up!

If you think 500 hp and 420-430tq on UM is not going to be an engine killer you are kidding yourself.
Anyone who thinks our engines can hold that kind of power long term , regardless of turbo kit or tune, are only kidding themselves

 

[Uffda]

Nah they lowered the torque for non built lower...and a bit of the HP. That is why I did in the first place. APR is non adjustable.
Were only at 29.5 PSI but everything has been replaced fueling, injectors, etc. Its been de-tuned from that insane factory APR one. So i'm assuming i'm about 480 hp and like 430 tq.
As far as longevity...we shall see.....if she pops I will just do an engine rebuild.

@THEREALVRT - I truly do appreciate the comments. And having some outside the box feedback is fantastic.

 

[Uffda]

Sounds like an install issue on the fuel pump. Again, i only know one guy personally with the full apr stg3+ kit and his kit worked flawlessly. Countless 1/4 mile passes and several 1/2 mile events, highway pulls etc. All on a completely stock 16r with the apr kit.
The other 2 guys i know running the apr kit with oem wg had issues with boost due to modded wg arm. Neither of them had fueling issues.
Again, i think your shop fucked up on the install of some of your parts although the ghetto PR mpi inserts have failed on other people too.

I think you are correct TheRealVRT. The fueling system seemed pretty jacked up. I ended up adding an entire new fuel line. New Basket and inline filter for the pump. Put in a walbro 525 as well. I replaced the APR bosh 953'cc with Precision Race work 1300cc.
There are pictures etc upstream. The intake manifold your spot on I have pictures of it. It looked it just popped out there the fitting spots. Fuel was shooting out like 4" in the air. LOL

Fred @UM with all the factory APR stuff on "the full stage 3+ kit" was saying it was low on fuel and dangerous above 22psi. So I pretty much use the lower voltage longer duty cycle Walbro 525 so we can prevent high voltage draws and a potential fuel cut out from the fuel module.
I replaced 3 fuel pumps....and eventually it was just buying the PAG Parts fueling and basket with Precision stuff and a Walbro 525 LPH. My problem was always the fueling issue. I just replaced all of it.

 

[Uffda]

I may buy my wife a Golf R. Or just get an audi TTRS for me and give her mine Guy at the shop doing the same thing I am to his Golf R did the same with his...and gave it to his wife. He has a Stage II APR TTRS and wow.

 

[THEREALVRT]

I think you are correct TheRealVRT. The fueling system seemed pretty jacked up. I ended up adding an entire new fuel line. New Basket and inline filter for the pump. Put in a walbro 525 as well. I replaced the APR bosh 953'cc with Precision Race work 1300cc.
There are pictures etc upstream. The intake manifold your spot on I have pictures of it. It looked it just popped out there the fitting spots. Fuel was shooting out like 4" in the air. LOL

Fred @UM with all the factory APR stuff on "the full stage 3+ kit" was saying it was low on fuel and dangerous above 22psi. So I pretty much use the lower voltage longer duty cycle Walbro 525 so we can prevent high voltage draws and a potential fuel cut out from the fuel module.
I replaced 3 fuel pumps....and eventually it was just buying the PAG Parts fueling and basket with Precision stuff and a Walbro 525 LPH. My problem was always the fueling issue. I just replaced all of it.

and that's where that doesn't make sense to me, how can my buddy run the apr 3+ kit with the 305 and run well into the 30s are far as psi. how are people running stock fuel systems and similar sized turbos and able to run close to the limit of the stock map sensors ( 29 PSI). my buddy traps 127 ish mph with just the seats and sub out, everything on the car is factory other than the components of the turbo kit. So 127mph should give you an indication of how much power he is making.
Also the 525 and 1300cc injectors are overkill unless you are running high E content gas. You should have never needed to upgrade to those. Basket design with the pag parts kit, yes, it is superior over the oem modded basket type fuel pump installs but again, that 525 and 1300 cc are overkill. Yes i get that UM reduces voltage to FPC but for the power levels you requested to keep it at you should never needed those components.
When you say 480 hp and 420 tq are you talking about WHP and WTQ ?

 

[Diggs24]

Why does UM base pump gas GTI IS20 try and run 10 degrees of timing at 4k? All good questions.....

 

[Uffda]

and that's where that doesn't make sense to me, how can my buddy run the apr 3+ kit with the 305 and run well into the 30s are far as psi. how are people running stock fuel systems and similar sized turbos and able to run close to the limit of the stock map sensors ( 29 PSI). my buddy traps 127 ish mph with just the seats and sub out, everything on the car is factory other than the components of the turbo kit. So 127mph should give you an indication of how much power he is making.
Also the 525 and 1300cc injectors are overkill unless you are running high E content gas. You should have never needed to upgrade to those. Basket design with the pag parts kit, yes, it is superior over the oem modded basket type fuel pump installs but again, that 525 and 1300 cc are overkill. Yes i get that UM reduces voltage to FPC but for the power levels you requested to keep it at you should never needed those components.
When you say 480 hp and 420 tq are you talking about WHP and WTQ ?

Yes

Yes i on purpose over compensated on everything so I would not blow my engine. I had heard way to many horror stories of people blowing up there engines. I make good money. So in hindsight I should have just rebuilt my engine and went straight apr stage 3 +. But given my luck. I opted for apr 3 + kit and then replaced as needed after the APR tune removal.

car has a bit of a rough idol now. Taking her back in for a KV coil over examine. My front end links were clinking. So the took my APR end links off put factory back on. Seems better but still clunks on bumps. So they want to look at the sleeves on my KW coil overs. They think the sleeve is rubbing.
At that time I will have them data log her and see if something is up. Rich/Lean or whatever.

Car is a monster right now. Love it.

 

[Uffda]

This dude is an idiot. This is not a problem with the kit, its a problem with you piecing random parts together and having them improperly installed. Go ahead and blame APR all you want but unless you followed directions with their kit 100% then you can't blame anything.

Actually! I did have the entire kit on. And guess what? It did not work and nearly blew my car up!. So I switched out the Tune on the car from APR Stage III+ . That tune is WAY over boosted and WAY under fueled. So yeah APR will not allow or does not allow any customization on the stock APR Tune they don't do it. So you can either a) take it all off or b) blow your car up. I chose to upgrade my tune and not use the APR tune. But to do that you need an electronic actuated waste gate. So as you know, the APR Borg Warner EFR-7163 has a vacuum actuated waste gate.

NOTE: I know 3 people whom had there cars blown up by the APR Stage III+ kit.

So what that means genius is that you have to remove the vacuum waste gate and install a stock IS-38 electronic waste gate. You have to do this or you cannot customize the waste gate accusation for precise tuning. This requires some custom fabrication and calibration of the control arm. Which takes time and patience. Once that was done....we started her back up...and promptly ran out of fuel with the APR supplied fuel pump which came with the APR Stage III + kit...so...I had to upgrade it. After I went with a 450 it was still not working. So rather then just try a larger one I replaced the entire fuel system.

I pulled the APR bosh 953 injectors out and the plastic fuel rail. I removed the APR supplied fuel pump.
I put in a precision raceworks billet fuel rail and 1300cc injectors.
I put in a precision raceworks larger fuel line
I put in a Walbro 525 fuel pump with a PAG parts 525 fuel basket mod kit as well as a precision raceworks custom filter for the pump. "filter in the pump but it runs in line"

Started her up after all that. And damn it works...I could actually get more then 22 psi with out fuel drop off.
My custom tune was several back and forth reading and driving sessions with the tuner at UM. So it's built specifically for my car...That shit APR sent out for the MK 7 is horrible. Now the other version may be ok but for the MK 7 its shit.

Still getting some clank from the right front coil over so I will be taking it back in "all under warranty 1 year" and they said they will drop the wheel and check the sleeve in coil over could be rubbing. Thought it was my APR end-links. Which I took those off as well and put stock back on.
I will probably warranty them as they are super loose.

 

[Brad.R]

Eric, great meeting you at Brink today and talking about your car. Just wanted to say thanks for writing up all your trials and tribulations of the upgrade path...I am thinking when the time is right I'll be taking a much more conservative path and have specified a lot of the same parts you ended up being happy with.

- EQT Vortex XL Turbo with calibrated electric WG
- PR MPI Kit/lines
- Walbro 450 LPFP
- Equilibrium has done two custom tunes for me already and would be tuning this setup for me. I've been extremely happy with the quality of tunes they put out, and they only setbacks have been on the backend (issues with Cobb, usually resolved quickly though).

I have also heard horror stories about APR stage 3. When I lived in Houston, the only APR Stage 3 car I ever saw was in the shop every. damn. time. my car was in the shop (he was getting problems looked at, I was always getting upgrades). It eventually blew up and put the shop in a very frustrating situation. That's what pushed me away from purchasing anything other than simple bolt ons from APR.

Anyways, beautiful car. Always great to meet more local enthusiasts.

 

[Uffda]

@Brad.R Hell yes. I would definitely do a hybrid IS38 over the borg warner. Don't get me wrong I love my car but it was pretty freaking expensive. The IS38 Hybrid would be a massive bang for the buck! LOVE LOVE my car but...if I had to do it again...prob settle on an IS38 Hybrid.
Brad I may actually move to Katy, TX soon not sure...or build here in the greater Austin area like George town or Leander something like that. Maybe even Largo Vista.

 

[JerseyDrew77]

A full frame turbo is the way to go but just not with APR's kit. I took the hybrid route and have been loving it ever since.

 

[Uffda]

@JerseyDrew77 - That is exactly what I did. I purchased the APR Stage 3 Kit and used nothing from it besides the turbo. I did not use APR's tune either. I chose to go a safer route with United Motorsports and a custom tune.

 

[jimlloyd40]

A full frame turbo is the way to go but just not with APR's kit. I took the hybrid route and have been loving it ever since.

Especially with your 515 HP currently. Every time I floor mine which has 416 HP and think it feels great I now say to myself JerseyDrew77 has 100 more horses.