JB4 Logging, stacking and Map 6 Discussion

[rogerp1]

Are you looking to do boost targeting or additive?

If you're looking for boost targeting, check out your logs and at the RPM points, write down your above log values (for example you're at about 22-23psi at 4500rpm) and try adding 1psi. Most power will be up top, so I'd start by adding about 1 psi from 5000rpm-redline and then working below that. You'll have less room to increase from 3500-4500 usually.

For additive, I'd recommend exporting the log to a CSV (I look at all my logs in CSV) and check the target value. Go off these values in the designated RPM points and just increase them a bit, starting at 5000rpm.

For both, I would stop increasing until you start getting knock, your turbo can't flow your requested boost, or you don't want to push your turbo any harder

Thanks very much - will follow your instructions to set up an absolute map for the warmer months. When you say “start getting knock“ - is lots of timing pull the main way to identify knock from these logs - or are there other indicators of knock i should look for?

 

[rscott4563]

Too cold is bad too.... I think below 40°F is the point where it starts to cause issues.

If you look closely, you start knocking before even going WOT, so I'm going to guess it's the temps. When it warms up a bit, try to grab another log

Hey 0bLiViOuS, what's your understanding of the cause of 'low' temperature intake temperatures causing timing pull or knock? I have never heard of this before and couldn't find anything documented on how this would occur or what the mechanism for a cooler intake temperature (denser air/higher O2 content) reducing power would be?

Keen to know more.

 

[Cruiser]

My first log, forgive me for the pic of screenshot.
I'm working from a spare phone and I'm struggling with transfering files. Newbie here.
Anyway, does boost and timing look ok at redline?
But then both swing wildly after the shift?
It's map 2, 91+e85, roughly e25. No bolt ons.
It feels really powerful, even though I don't need so much power, I understand that this is a starting point for logging. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

 

[RjRacing]

People on our FB group are still asking what stack tuning is and nothing explains things better than a meme... so I made a new one hahah

 

[snobrdrdan]

^^^

 

[racerboy55]

My first log, forgive me for the pic of screenshot.

I'm working from a spare phone and I'm struggling with transfering files. Newbie here.

Anyway, does boost and timing look ok at redline?

But then both swing wildly after the shift?

It's map 2, 91+e85, roughly e25. No bolt ons.

It feels really powerful, even though I don't need so much power, I understand that this is a starting point for logging. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Boost curve seems bit aggressive - have you consulted George?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Diggs24]

Took some 3rd gear logs today (Map 2) - it was hot out there! 32 degree celsius ambient (about 90F).

I'm interested to know how people can tell from the Map 2 logs like mine what a good absolute Map 6 setting might be? I have seen people comment that you can see where the opportunities are - can you talk that through? I've sent these to George - but interested in the thinking process you go through.

Car is a ROW (Australia) S3 8V with intake, turbo inlet pipe, 98RON with an ethanol blend of between E10 and E15. DSG.

No timing pull in the first log (IGN2 not showing in pic but was NIL) - a little pull of up to -1.3 in the second run later in the day.

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Did anyone comment on the fact throttle his constantly not hitting 100? Is this not an issue? Isn't the car slower than if it had hit 100 constantly?

 

[George Smooth]

Did anyone comment on the fact throttle his constantly not hitting 100? Is this not an issue? Isn't the car slower than if it had hit 100 constantly?

No difference in power. Throttle on MK7 is floating and used for torque targeting.

 

[Diggs24]

No difference in power. Throttle on MK7 is floating and used for torque targeting.

Interesting. I've never seen my throttle below 96 when my pedal is at 100 in any of my logs.

A question about KR. In all of my logs I am always seeing it in cylinder 2, but it is never above -3. Is this something to be concerned about or is this phantom KR? It seems to be somewhat common in lots of different tunes, not just the JB4.

 

[0bLiViOuS]

Interesting. I've never seen my throttle below 96 when my pedal is at 100 in any of my logs.

A question about KR. In all of my logs I am always seeing it in cylinder 2, but it is never above -3. Is this something to be concerned about or is this phantom KR? It seems to be somewhat common in lots of different tunes, not just the JB4.

I've only seen the throttle thing in R/S3 logs as well which makes it strange and I just attributed it to the haldex or something but good to get more clarification from George.

As for your knock, do you get consistent knock in cyl 2 or is that the one which tends to act up first?

 

[0bLiViOuS]

My first log, forgive me for the pic of screenshot.
I'm working from a spare phone and I'm struggling with transfering files. Newbie here.
Anyway, does boost and timing look ok at redline?
But then both swing wildly after the shift?
It's map 2, 91+e85, roughly e25. No bolt ons.
It feels really powerful, even though I don't need so much power, I understand that this is a starting point for logging. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Looks clean. May want to add pedal, throttle and trims to the graph so you can make sure your trims are looking good but other than that I think it's a solid run!

 

[Diggs24]

I've only seen the throttle thing in R/S3 logs as well which makes it strange and I just attributed it to the haldex or something but good to get more clarification from George.

As for your knock, do you get consistent knock in cyl 2 or is that the one which tends to act up first?

Only 2. Never any other cylinder. Even happens not at full throttle. People are even seeing knock retard just driving normally making turns (Cobb stage1).

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28394&page=6

 

[0bLiViOuS]

Hey 0bLiViOuS, what's your understanding of the cause of 'low' temperature intake temperatures causing timing pull or knock? I have never heard of this before and couldn't find anything documented on how this would occur or what the mechanism for a cooler intake temperature (denser air/higher O2 content) reducing power would be?

Keen to know more.

I was trying to find the post from VAG*Tech on this, but i couldn't. George has mentioned it before too. Looking at other users logs, I can confirm that things do appear to get a bit screwy in the freezing temps. I really haven't seen much discussion on this, but I have heard it mentioned a couple times and can confirm I've seen logs from users getting timing retard clean up when it gets warmer.. which would be counter productive logically.

I'll see if I can dig into it a bit more, but maybe George can drop some knowledge on us!

 

[George Smooth]

Hey 0bLiViOuS, what's your understanding of the cause of 'low' temperature intake temperatures causing timing pull or knock? I have never heard of this before and couldn't find anything documented on how this would occur or what the mechanism for a cooler intake temperature (denser air/higher O2 content) reducing power would be?

Keen to know more.

More oxygen content makes it more prone to pre ignite. Also cars at higher altitude can handle more timing/boost based on the same principle.

 

[George Smooth]

Only 2. Never any other cylinder. Even happens not at full throttle. People are even seeing knock retard just driving normally making turns (Cobb stage1).

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28394&page=6

Knock retard is actually bad terminology for the timing adaption. In most cases its not knock related.
The car will also adapt timing on heavy boost onset to assist with torque targeting.
In essence what you are seeing is a live adaption channel hence many times when its present overall timing does not take a dip. The norm though is when it does go higher than 3 is for it to be knock related.