JB4 Logging, stacking and Map 6 Discussion

[roystr]

The shitty gas is killing the timing. Any way to get some ethanol in there? If so, start with a couple gallons of E85 and set your FOL to 50. What is boost safety at?

What's desirable as far as ignition timing goes? I think I saw some earlier posts where George was pointing out up to 10 degress of advance on a good running car.

The log above shows advance at 0 BTDC for most of the pull with a few blips of 4 BTDC.

Thanks,
Roy

 

[shortyb]

ethanol will absorb moisture.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/about_ethanol_fuel.html

here is a quote right from the ethanol fuel wiki: "Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water vapor directly from the atmosphere. Because absorbed water dilutes the fuel value of the ethanol and may cause phase separation of ethanol-gasoline blends (which causes engine stall), containers of ethanol fuels must be kept tightly sealed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

Yes, but ethanol also evaporates. It is through the vapor transporation that the exchange takes place. And it generally takes a shit-ton of water vapor to cause enough absorption to create phase separation in ethanol blended motor fuels.
Plus, fuel blenders add homogenizers and co-solvents to the ethanol for prevention of separation.

Fuzzy rule of thumb: if you blend, and your car sits for extended periods (read weeks) in the hot humid summer, you MIGHT gets separation. Solution: drive more often. The fuel system of modern vehicles is sealed enough to keep vapor transfer at a minimum and you'll be fine with routine blending and regular driving.

 

[shortyb]

What's desirable as far as ignition timing goes? I think I saw some earlier posts where George was pointing out up to 10 degress of advance on a good running car.

The log above shows advance at 0 BTDC for most of the pull with a few blips of 4 BTDC.

Thanks,
Roy

Yes, 10 degrees advance is desirable and attainable, but you need decent fuel and an eye on boost to get it. I'm no expert but seems that advance on these cars doesn't start at WOT until ~4500-5000rpm

The graph showed lots of small timing corrections with a big pull at 5.5K rpm. Map 1 is modest boost and the IATs were relatively cool so that leaves fuel as a good suspect. Better fuel I'm sure will lead to more timing in this case.

 

[Diggs24]

GTI stock advance starts at 4800. "Good" timing should be 8-10 degrees by 6000. You need ethanol to do that on any sort of heavy boost. IATs will also bring it down so even at E30 if you are hitting 120+ IATs it won't hit 10 degrees. Avoid IGN1 dips of 2+ to keep good power.

 

[bleeped]

The shitty gas is killing the timing. Any way to get some ethanol in there? If so, start with a couple gallons of E85 and set your FOL to 50. What is boost safety at?

Boost failsafe is set at 24 psi. Any alternatives to run better short of using ethanol? If not, are these safe conditions to continue running as is?

 

[Diggs24]

Boost failsafe is set at 24 psi. Any alternatives to run better short of using ethanol? If not, are these safe conditions to continue running as is?

Everything looks good. Your timing stinks because your gas stinks, but it just won't be as fast as it could be with better gas. You can run map1 all day and it's safe.

 

[Steenbeek]

Hallo,

endlich mal jemand der deutsch spricht. Ich würde mir über trim 40 nicht zu viele Sorgen machen. Bis 45 ist es OK solang afr nicht steigt. Teilweise hatte ich schon 50. Wenn dein Gemisch aber abmagert, kannst du entweder den Ladedruck etwas reduzieren, oder fol etwas erhöhen. Ich denke bei deinem Motor sind fol60 auch noch OK. Bei meinem 1.8 er fahre ich derzeit fol 90.

Gruß

I make some pulls today

Settings:
Seat Leon Cupra 280 (R engine)
RON 102
Shift Boost Reduction 80
FOL 50

1500 0
2000 2.0
2500 3.0
3000 3.0
3500 4.0
4000 5.0
4500 6.0
5000 6.0
5500 6.0
6000 5.5
6500 5.5
7000 5.0

https://datazap.me/u/bagy/map-6-110...25-26-27-28-29&trim=0&tmin=155.54&tmax=248.50

I had an overboost Problem from 3-4 Gear, now I lowered the Boost on high rpm and set the Shift Boost Reduction 80.

What concerns me is the high Trim.

--------------------------------------------------

This is a WOT from before

Settings:
Seat Leon Cupra 280 (R engine)
RON 102
Shift Boost Reduction 80
FOL 50

1500 0
2000 2.0
2500 3.0
3000 3.0
3500 4.0
4000 5.0
4500 6.0
5000 6.0
5500 6.0
6000 6.0
6500 5.5
7000 5.0

https://datazap.me/u/bagy/map-6-110...19-24-25-26-27-28-29&trim=0&tmin=588&tmax=758

Here the Trims is getting to High and the AFR is lean.

Gesendet von meinem ZUK Z2121 mit Tapatalk

 

[bleeped]

Everything looks good. Your timing stinks because your gas stinks, but it just won't be as fast as it could be with better gas. You can run map1 all day and it's safe.

I managed to find a station that had e85 so at the half tank mark, I put in 2 gallons and filled the rest with 91 oct.

This is a 2nd gear pull however, so not sure if it's usable.

Outside temp was around 86 degrees. Still on default map 1, fuel bias 100, FOL 60. Does the timing look better here or still the same old?

https://datazap.me/u/bleeped/log-1534132887?log=0&data=1-4-5-6-11-18-25-26-27&zoom=2608-2684

 

[jibbajoe]

I managed to find a station that had e85 so at the half tank mark, I put in 2 gallons and filled the rest with 91 oct.

This is a 2nd gear pull however, so not sure if it's usable.

Outside temp was around 86 degrees. Still on default map 1, fuel bias 100, FOL 60. Does the timing look better here or still the same old?

https://datazap.me/u/bleeped/log-1534132887?log=0&data=1-4-5-6-11-18-25-26-27&zoom=2608-2684

someone can correct me here but im pretty sure you can add 3-4 gallons of 85 instead of just 2. the more the better (up to about 4 gallons from what George has told me). more e85, the more boost you can run especially if you only have access to 91 octane. 3rd gear pull would be better but your not getting any timing corrections which is good.

 

[Diggs24]

2 gallons is fine. Just need to clean up timing.

Need 3rd gear pull.

 

[shortyb]

someone can correct me here but im pretty sure you can add 3-4 gallons of 85 instead of just 2. the more the better (up to about 4 gallons from what George has told me). more e85, the more boost you can run especially if you only have access to 91 octane. 3rd gear pull would be better but your not getting any timing corrections which is good.

You can, but watch the trims. Ethanol has less fuel density than gasoline and you can "run out" of fuel. ECU will try to increase fuel rail pressure to make up the "lost" fuel but can only do so to a certain point before throwing a CEL. Dropping FOL in this case will solve the CEL and allow slightly more fueling most times, but is not the optimal solution. Adjust your mixture closer to E25-E30 unless you have capability to push more fuel (HPFP upgrade, LPFP, bigger injectors etc.) and can actually use the increased E content (bigger turbo). Increasing boost without these considerations will pull timing.

 

[roystr]

Got some E25 (2.5 gal of E85 + 10.7 gal of ACN91) and switched back to map 6.

1500 2.0
2000 3.0
2500 4.0
3000 4.5
3500 5.0
4000 5.0
4500 6.0
5000 7.0
5500 6.0
6000 6.0
6500 6.0
7000 5.0
FOL 50

Last week ACN91:
https://datazap.me/u/gti925/jb4-map-6?log=0&data=1-4-11-25-26&zoom=393-523

At this point, Diggs said "move that shit back to map 1". lol

This morning on E25: back to back 3rd gear pulls
https://datazap.me/u/gti925/jb4-map-6-e25-107-gal-acn91-25-gal-e85?log=0&data=1-4-11-25&zoom=126-272

Car feels sooo much better. Timing advance looks way better, too. Diggs: you happy with this?

Roy

 

[jibbajoe]

You can, but watch the trims. Ethanol has less fuel density than gasoline and you can "run out" of fuel. ECU will try to increase fuel rail pressure to make up the "lost" fuel but can only do so to a certain point before throwing a CEL. Dropping FOL in this case will solve the CEL and allow slightly more fueling most times, but is not the optimal solution. Adjust your mixture closer to E25-E30 unless you have capability to push more fuel (HPFP upgrade, LPFP, bigger injectors etc.) and can actually use the increased E content (bigger turbo). Increasing boost without these considerations will pull timing.

yeah i think 4 gallons is the limit. would put the tank at about e33 wiht 91 octane. my FOL has been at 60. what would i look for on trims as a sign of an issue? when it starts hitting 40+ ? never had a CEL though.

 

[Bagy88]

Hallo,

endlich mal jemand der deutsch spricht. Ich würde mir über trim 40 nicht zu viele Sorgen machen. Bis 45 ist es OK solang afr nicht steigt. Teilweise hatte ich schon 50. Wenn dein Gemisch aber abmagert, kannst du entweder den Ladedruck etwas reduzieren, oder fol etwas erhöhen. Ich denke bei deinem Motor sind fol60 auch noch OK. Bei meinem 1.8 er fahre ich derzeit fol 90.

Gruß

Gesendet von meinem ZUK Z2121 mit Tapatalk

Servus

Leider ist mein FOL am limit, ich bekomme den bekannten rail pressure fehler.

Aber ich werde FOL auf 45 setzten, und schauen, wo ich villeicht nocht den halben psi runterschraube Sonst funktioniert das Teil echt super

Grüße!

 

[Diggs24]

Ja, FOL 40-45 ist die grenze für IS38 autos.