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DCC Retrofit

Cuzoe

Autocross Newbie
Location
Los Angeles
Progress is being made, although slowly so far. Hoping to pick things up over the next few weeks. I've had enough of doing front suspension work so I'm going to have the front installed by a local shop (along with new knuckles and brakes). I'll have the wiring pre-run to the front just coiled up and secured. Once the fronts have been replaced I'll finalize that routing, then next will come the software stuff which I will get done remotely.
 

AWD4416

Ready to race!
Location
Texas
I've had enough of doing front suspension work

😂 100% This!

You don't need to remove much on the rear, just the actual shock. But the front, this is my third VW having to deal with the stupid strut being a massive pain to replace. When these do go out, I'm definitely paying to get them replaced 😂.

So I got it all installed and wanted to share some points.
- For the FL Golf, DCC uses fuse 52, there was no hot terminal on my fuse panel for this, ended up using fuse 44 which was really easy to get to.
- On the struts, loosen the top strut nut while on the ground.
- I had almost every tool needed except the proper tool for the shock/strut pass through socket or allen key. Ended up torquing the shock using the old nut on top of the new nut to drive it down then tapped it with my electric impact driver.
- On the strut, I lightly hit it with the impact driver then torqued it to spec when then the strut was installed and the car was on the ground.
- You will need to do basic settings, all 4 wheels off the ground, I used ODIS for this.
- You will need to load up parameters, my understand is the once the module learns a new VIN it needs to re-program. I used a module from a Golf R, it showed the error about needing settings, used VCP to load up the Club Sport settings.


As how the GTI feels now? The closes thing I can describe it to is the drive modes for the DSG. DCC Comfort is kind of like Eco drive mode, it react slowly, the dampers absob the energy over a longer period of time so it feels less jarring when going over road imperfections. DCC Normal is like the Normal drive mode, the dampers absorb the energy a bit faster than Comfort mode so the suspension feels sportier (like stock GTI suspension). DCC Sport is like Sport drive mode, the dampers stiffen up the suspension which makes you feel like you are more in control but it also transmitts all the road imperfection almost instantly. My GTI is right at 29K, I could definetly see a difference between the new DCC dampers and the factory dampers. Something else I would mention is that my tires are run flats which are not as comfortable as Michelin AS series which I typically have on my cars.





 
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Cuzoe

Autocross Newbie
Location
Los Angeles
Awesome man... I'm pretty sure my module came out of a Golf R as well. I don't have VCP for loading up parameters though and I'm not sure it's worth buying just for this. I'm hoping basic settings can be done with VCDS. Does that procedure also include a portion on the ground. I read in one of the threads here that basic settings need to be done for normal drive height as well (maybe it's all part of the same process. I believe the poster noted reduced ride quality after lowering the car which was solved by re-doing basic settings. I guess system thought the car was in nose dive of sorts and was keeping the suspension stiff.

That description sounds like what I would expect from the system, granted I don't have DSG. I'm also on 17" wheels/tires so I probably have a little more built in comfort than your run flats.
 

AWD4416

Ready to race!
Location
Texas
I'm not sure if VCDS can do the basic settings. I know some users figured out how to do the basic settings on the driver assist camera using ODBeleven. I'm assuming there might be away for VCDS.
On ODIS, it specifically tells you to have the wheels off the ground, you hit go and a few seconds later, its done. There is a way to do this with VCP also, it says mk6 but apparently it works. I have both so I went with what was convenient 😅. I do not have the comfort mode on my drive select screen but I understand this is something that needs to be program on the Gateway module.

One question I do have for whenever you get it all setup or if anyone already has DCC, can the valves be heard when you turn on the car or when your programing the module? I can definitely hear the struts actuating the valves when i turn on the car or when I'm on the DCC module on VCP. The shocks are not as loud but I can hear them if I get close to them .
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Newbie
Location
Los Angeles
Did you happen to check the Wheel Dampening Electronics (14) module to see if there were any faults before swapping to the Bilstein's? Curious if there were.
Forget what my faults were but there were two with DCC, one with ACC and one with the fuel level sensor.

My comfort mode wasn't so comfortable. Rode like shit.

Took it to the dealer to have the ACC and DCC re-calibrated and everything functioned as expected afterwards. It also included the alignment.
All the modes were back to what they were prior to lowering. Dealer told me that the DCC assumed the car was nose diving (braking hard) so it was compensating by stiffening the struts.
This is from a different thread but mentions re-calibration of DCC. But I don't know if that's done on ground or in the wheels up. I suppose it's possible the DCC module "learns" a normal position over a few drives after the wheels up calibration has been completed.
 

sopskysalat

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Singapore
AWD4416, during coding, is there an option for Torsion Beam or Multi-link rear setting? I wonder how DCC control unit differentiate? Or is there a firmware specifically for the two? Torsion beam is a pain to retrofit this.
 

AWD4416

Ready to race!
Location
Texas
AWD4416, during coding, is there an option for Torsion Beam or Multi-link rear setting? I wonder how DCC control unit differentiate? Or is there a firmware specifically for the two? Torsion beam is a pain to retrofit this.

From all I've been able to read on few websites, VCP forums, octavia-rs forums, jimmy-cbx blogspot and other places, DCC just needs to know what the hyper extended value of the level sensors and probably the dampers is, to set the zero. Once the vehicle is on the ground, I'm assuming it gets the natural level position of the dampers and level sensors. The reason I say this is because I've read of people installing DCC on all sorts of VAG group vehicles and it just works (ex. MK5 Golf, MK6 Golf, SEAT Leon). The latest thing is the slider which apparently comes from the VW Arteon. People are flashing the software and parameters/settings from the Arteon into other VAG vehicles and it works. So as long as you have dampers that will work with your vehicle, the rest is just black magic from the DCC computer. There is no coding or adaptions on the DCC module. The coding is needed for the other modules to understand that you have DCC installed, i.e. ABS, 4B, Gateway, and a few others. Hopefully this makes sense.
 
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Cuzoe

Autocross Newbie
Location
Los Angeles
I've got all the harness runs done at this point. The rear is 100% complete and the front harnesses are in the wheel wells. Going to install the front level sensors some time this week. We've discussed this already but I'm thinking I might install the front struts myself... hear me out, haha.

I'm installing the Eurosport camber pucks, so to cut down on time in the shop I bought new strut mounts so I could pre-install them. I have new strut bearings (from the Audi TT, although it probably makes no difference) because replacing them is cheap insurance against noises. Had to buy bump stops and dust covers because mine won't transfer with the move to 55mm struts (also noticed the DCC bump stop is shorter than the non DCC anyway). Going from 50mm to 55mm struts also means I'm replacing the knuckles (and hub/bearings). Since I have every part required I'm thinking I'll fully build the new strut/hub assemblies before hand. Then remove the whole assemblies from the car and replace.

Getting the strut out of the knuckle on the car is always the most annoying part, imho. This avoids that. The only thing it really adds that I haven't done before is replacing calipers/brake lines and that seems simple enough. I've replaced a hub/bearing on this car before and the hardest part was the additional 90 degrees on the axle nut... solved with my floor jack handle over a breaker bar.
 

AWD4416

Ready to race!
Location
Texas
Follow up on a few findings after finishing the DCC retrofit.

I originally reported that I could hear the DCC valves actuate when turning on the GTI which freaked me out 😅. About the only time I hear this now is if I go to the DCC module with any of my programing tools (OBDeleven, VCP, ODIS-S). Checked my wire harness before install with my multimeter and double checked everything against the VW wiring diagram. I'm not really sure if its a problem but will check the wiring again soon.

The passenger side level sensor has an inverted value, as in it goes from 70s to 30s. Not sure what the unit of measure is. The other two level sensors go from the 30s to 70s. At first i thought that my sensor was bad, but a friend was able to validate my numbers against his Golf R with factory DCC.

Drive modes 😣, so comfort mode is not available unless you pay for someone to reprogram the gateway. Comes back to Swap codes and all that. I asked on the VCP forums if there is away to do it with the parameter files available on VCP and was told no, but a good alternative is loading up Passat settings on the Gateway along with index C on the DCC module to get the slider. Not super sure how to do this but will investigate and if I find out anything will definitely share.

As for ride quality, its feeling better recently. I did get an alignment which help as I'm not fighting the steering wheel anymore. Or maybe the dampers are breaking in or something.

DCC does a good job at controlling the rebound of the springs but its not the same plush feel you would get as driving something on 16" wheels. I can understand why some people think DCC is a gimmick. I'm convince they do not understanding what is happening from a physics perspective. Or maybe they set their expectations too high. Having DCC doesn't mean you have a transformer button on your V-Dub, it just makes the suspension adjust dynamicly within a control range. I do have the 034 motorsports rear sway bar for like 8 months or so. It help getting the natural GTI body roll under control. Add DCC to the mix and taking corners feels way better. I also feel like power delivery is improved especially in sport mode.

Hope this helps with anyone considering this retrofit. As with any other advance retrofit (Check out my LED Headlight retrofit 😁) its worth it if your getting something out of it. By the way I love my dynamic LED Headlights 😄.
 
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Cuzoe

Autocross Newbie
Location
Los Angeles
So I'm sort of back to working on this. Got my aluminum knuckles cleaned up, Eurosport camber pucks installed, and getting ready to assemble the front struts. My dilemma is that I really don't want to do this twice. I don't want to be low but my rear wheel gap is excessive, haha (and not helped by my 235/45s). Rear springs are simple enough to swap but the fronts obviously aren't.

I know a GTI with DCC sits slightly higher than one without and I was hoping to end up somewhere around GTI height. But I also know my factory Golf gap wasn't this much in the rear. I wouldn't suspect the GTI springs to be that much stiffer than my stock springs but maybe they're taller. Might have to pull them out and measure.

Anyway, thoughts on putting my factory TDI springs on with the DCC dampers? Will they be too soft? I'm going to see if I can locate my stock front springs and compare their height to the GTI springs I am currently planning to install. Will also compare the overall height of the DCC struts with my factory ones. I don't know that the factory TDI front springs will fit on the 55mm dampers so I would have to order GTI lowering springs... thinking maybe DG for stock-like ride and DCC compatibility.

Pics will be added for attention...
 

ZERO815

Go Kart Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
NA '17 GTI SE DSG
I guess the shock tube length and subsequently jounce bumper/tube length is your issue. You have used the Multi-Link rear shocks on a twist-beam rear axle vehicle. Please pull the rear shocks and measure/compare length to factory shocks of middle eye-ring to tube cap.
1607420170985.png

I expect there to be a difference of 28mm according to my data. The Multi-Link shocks are the longer once.

Don't drive without rear jounce bumpers but if you install the rear shocks w/o rear jounce bumpers, does it sit as expected? Then you need to find the correct jounce bumper for your specific application.

According to the TÜV_docs of Eibachs Pro-Kit the EW1540002HA are the springs for the twist-beam rear axle and the 11-15-021-01-HA for the Multi-Link rear axle. The GTI springs should be shorter.
1607419736866.png
1607419309632.png
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Newbie
Location
Los Angeles
I will lift one side, pull a wheel and measure them (hopefully later today) and post that info. I am very much aware that the dampers I'm using are from a car with IRS, haha. DCC was not an option for the twist beam TDI here in the states so this retrofit is in many ways a fun exercise in building my car. In doing some research for this retrofit I found the OEM DCC damper for a torsion beam MQB Seat Leon (something, it's earlier in the thread). The B4 Damptronic replacement for that damper was the same as the GTI/R (according to some research) so that's what I have installed. Of course, that could all be wrong, which wouldn't be a surprise. I did run into an issue with fitting the rear dampers due to the width of the lower bushing, but that was easy enough to solve.

I assume jounce bumpers = bump stops... If so I'm not resting on them. I have plenty of suspension travel in the back. I even left the dust shield unsecured when I first fitted them, then lowered the car to see if I needed to trim the stops and found it wasn't necessary.

Is this TUV excerpt you've posted for the Golf? If so I am excited to begin referring to my car as a Limousine, haha.

I'll keep this post updated with measurements as I take them:
Rear damper body length
Golf TDI OEM - 377mm
Bilstein B8 - 377mm
B4 Damptronics -

Rear spring length (untensioned)
Golf TDI OEM (~25,000 miles)- 347mm
H&R OE Sport (~8,000 miles) - 323mm
Golf GTI OEM (~8,0000 miles) -
 
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2018gti

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Car(s)
'18 GTI Autobahn 6MT
Follow up on a few findings after finishing the DCC retrofit.

I originally reported that I could hear the DCC valves actuate when turning on the GTI which freaked me out 😅. About the only time I hear this now is if I go to the DCC module with any of my programing tools (OBDeleven, VCP, ODIS-S). Checked my wire harness before install with my multimeter and double checked everything against the VW wiring diagram. I'm not really sure if its a problem but will check the wiring again soon.

The passenger side level sensor has an inverted value, as in it goes from 70s to 30s. Not sure what the unit of measure is. The other two level sensors go from the 30s to 70s. At first i thought that my sensor was bad, but a friend was able to validate my numbers against his Golf R with factory DCC.

Drive modes 😣, so comfort mode is not available unless you pay for someone to reprogram the gateway. Comes back to Swap codes and all that. I asked on the VCP forums if there is away to do it with the parameter files available on VCP and was told no, but a good alternative is loading up Passat settings on the Gateway along with index C on the DCC module to get the slider. Not super sure how to do this but will investigate and if I find out anything will definitely share.

As for ride quality, its feeling better recently. I did get an alignment which help as I'm not fighting the steering wheel anymore. Or maybe the dampers are breaking in or something.

DCC does a good job at controlling the rebound of the springs but its not the same plush feel you would get as driving something on 16" wheels. I can understand why some people think DCC is a gimmick. I'm convince they do not understanding what is happening from a physics perspective. Or maybe they set their expectations too high. Having DCC doesn't mean you have a transformer button on your V-Dub, it just makes the suspension adjust dynamicly within a control range. I do have the 034 motorsports rear sway bar for like 8 months or so. It help getting the natural GTI body roll under control. Add DCC to the mix and taking corners feels way better. I also feel like power delivery is improved especially in sport mode.

Hope this helps with anyone considering this retrofit. As with any other advance retrofit (Check out my LED Headlight retrofit 😁) its worth it if your getting something out of it. By the way I love my dynamic LED Headlights 😄.

Bro you are literally a genius lol. Are you an engineer? Just curious.

A while ago I saw on Reddit someone showing off the DCC "slider" function on their GTI but never divulged how they did it. So now I know, thank you.

My DCC also makes 4 'thunk' noises twice when I connect to the car with OBDeleven, I figure it's normal. That sucks about Comfort mode being a Swap function. Just another way car companies have made retrofitting hard or impossible... Hopefully you can get the slider working. I'm curious if you noticed any difference in your lights changing the ride height long coding in the 4B module from BCM to DCC?
 

AWD4416

Ready to race!
Location
Texas
Bro you are literally a genius lol. Are you an engineer? Just curious.

A while ago I saw on Reddit someone showing off the DCC "slider" function on their GTI but never divulged how they did it. So now I know, thank you.

My DCC also makes 4 'thunk' noises twice when I connect to the car with OBDeleven, I figure it's normal. That sucks about Comfort mode being a Swap function. Just another way car companies have made retrofitting hard or impossible... Hopefully you can get the slider working. I'm curious if you noticed any difference in your lights changing the ride height long coding in the 4B module from BCM to DCC?

😂 Does Network engineer count?

Appreciate the feedback on the DCC noise. Good to know I didn't retrofit some junk 😅.

As for the LED lights, my GTI S didn't have the LED projectors from factory so I retrofitted them. I say this because I've been told that some of the coding (NA restrictions removed) on my lights is not possible on the factory equip NA models. I'm assuming this is due to me loading the programing from VCP. As for how they react, they kinda of look similar to how I had them before. Maybe a bit more reaction to the suspension changes.
 

davide.bonetti

Ready to race!
Location
ITALY
@Cuzoe just to clear this out, I am darkchina811 from the RT forum.

I also did DCC on my MK7, it is OEM unless the Comfort drive mode which cannot be officially added. So basically I need to edit the Individual profile in order to control DCC.

I would like to know more about how to implement the "slider".

my general opinion about DCC is... meh. it was fun to retrofit but honestly I almost always drive with DCC in normal mode.
 
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