2019 G Street Nationals Dashboard

[aroundomaha]

Did you try the larger FSB? @xXDavidCXx used this approach in STH and has had great success this year. But I'm still curious about a G Street setup that makes the car technically on-par with the Civic SI. (Driver is an entirely different story).

I'm considering a GS set up with the 034 large FSB, Koni Yellow struts, and rear toe out to get rotation.

@theDoktor and I have been talking about GS setups over in the Suspension Modeling thread, so rather than me continuing to clutter that up with GS setup ideas, we figured maybe let's bring that discussion here. It's as near to a GS specific thread as I see.

It looks likely that I'll at least run my '19 Rabbit Edition in GS again this year, at least for the first few months. If that turns out true, I'm going to try a big front sway bar, putting the stock rear back on, to see if flattening the front end will add some grip, by keeping the car off the sidewalls of the tire.

I've been doing like everyone else, and running a big rear bar and 0 toe to try to get the car to rotate. But, I've been wondering for a while if that's the wrong approach, because it's taking grip away from an end of the car, rather than (hopefully) adding grip to the end of the car that isn't working. It might not be as fun to drive, but maybe it'll be faster.

Anyone had a big front bar on theirs? Any experience with how the VAQ diff behaves? It "seems like it should be fine," but I'd still welcome input from anyone who's been down this road already.

The car now has Konis on it, and I'm guessing I'll try Falkens first. I drove SSC a few times last year and the new Falken is really good. Far better than the 615.

 

[theDoktor]

Did you try the larger FSB? @xXDavidCXx used this approach in STH and has had great success this year. But I'm still curious about a G Street setup that makes the car technically on-par with the Civic SI. (Driver is an entirely different story).

I'm considering a GS set up with the 034 large FSB, Koni Yellow struts, and rear toe out to get rotation.

Haven't tried the larger FSB yet. Last season was a complete bust around here for both events and test & tunes, so I didn't bother. I did install Koni Sports tho, and have just started experimenting with them. That change alone seems to have made a big (positive) impact. This week I will be checking toe with the string alignment fixture I made. This will allow me to figure out exactly what adjustment I need for rear toe-out at the first local event next weekend when I install my tires.
I also purchased a tire pyrometer last year and played around with it a couple of weeks ago at a Test & Tune. I'm aware of the controversy on using & relying on these, especially the probe-type like I'm using RN, but so far, the readings and the visible wear changes in the tires seem to reinforce themselves- i.e., I've been running too high pressures in my tires.
Tuning up the wheel nut is my biggest challenge right now!

 

[w124_karl]

I didn’t try it. Strano talked me out of it, and since I was offered a ride in an STH TT, I haven’t thought much about developing the GTI further.

Of interest - two of the three GS trophies at the NJ Tour went to GTIs.

 

[theDoktor]

I didn’t try it. Strano talked me out of it, and since I was offered a ride in an STH TT, I haven’t thought much about developing the GTI further.

Of interest - two of the three GS trophies at the NJ Tour went to GTIs.

I had a conversation with Strano about this before I bought my FSB from him!

Think Dave P. selling his Civic Si & replacing it with a Civic R had anything to do with it?

 

[xXDavidCXx]

I also purchased a tire pyrometer last year and played around with it a couple of weeks ago at a Test & Tune. I'm aware of the controversy on using & relying on these, especially the probe-type like I'm using RN, but so far, the readings and the visible wear changes in the tires seem to reinforce themselves- i.e., I've been running too high pressures in my tires.
Tuning up the wheel nut is my biggest challenge right now!

Care to elaborate on what the temps and pressures were? So far, very few people run "high" pressures so it would be good to know your data.

 

[theDoktor]

Tires: RE71-R Front: 245/40-17 Rear: 215/45-17
Track Surface Material: asphalt Air Temp at beginning of day: 70 degrees F Track Temp at beginning of day: 80 degrees F
Hot pressures before last (fastest) run: F= 41psi R= 37psi
Tire temps: LF: (Outside to inside) 112 114 107 RF: (Inside to outside) 113 120 109
LR: 95 98 95 RR: 92 98 93
Conclusion: Tires are SLIGHTLY overfilled (backed-up by additional visible wear between the two tire grooves, particularly noticeable on front tires); not rolling over onto shoulder- using 100% of tread on front, 95%+ on rear. See previously posted RR tire photo for typical rear tire wear pattern. Tire temps F&R are quite close for a FWD car. Drop 2 more pounds F&R and recheck

 

[w124_karl]

I had a conversation with Strano about this before I bought my FSB from him!

Think Dave P. selling his Civic Si & replacing it with a Civic R had anything to do with it?

Hard for me to say. I don’t know most of these people very well or at all. Looking forward to watching GS in Chicago though. Maybe I’ll luck up and get to work course for it.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Tires: RE71-R Front: 245/40-17 Rear: 215/45-17
Track Surface Material: asphalt Air Temp at beginning of day: 70 degrees F Track Temp at beginning of day: 80 degrees F
Hot pressures before last (fastest) run: F= 41psi R= 37psi
Tire temps: LF: (Outside to inside) 112 114 107 RF: (Inside to outside) 113 120 109
LR: 95 98 95 RR: 92 98 93
Conclusion: Tires are SLIGHTLY overfilled (backed-up by additional visible wear between the two tire grooves, particularly noticeable on front tires); not rolling over onto shoulder- using 100% of tread on front, 95%+ on rear. See previously posted RR tire photo for typical rear tire wear pattern. Tire temps F&R are quite close for a FWD car. Drop 2 more pounds F&R and recheck

I don't think a two degree outside to middle indicates you need to do anything with the tire pressure, especially if you had your fastest run with 41 PSI.

How do you know the outside didn't cool 4 degrees while you drove to the pits and got out of your car?

What would you do if the LF temps were 116 114 107? Add pressure?

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

I didn’t try it. Strano talked me out of it

Whenever I've talked to Sam about GTI setup he acts like they are super loose which is really confusing. When I tell him my setup he looks at me like I'm a psychopath.

I'm not saying that I know a large front bar on a GS GTI will definitely work, but idk if I would trust Sam on the GTI. I think Sam had standard ST-X coilovers and the Stranoparts rear bar on his car fwiw.

 

[w124_karl]

IIRC, the way he described things to me was that loosening up the car would just make the stability control angrier and be counter productive.

 

[theDoktor]

IIRC, the way he described things to me was that loosening up the car would just make the stability control angrier and be counter productive.

That may be why turning Stability Control all the way off seems to be slower for me.

 

[theDoktor]

Whenever I've talked to Sam about GTI setup he acts like they are super loose which is really confusing. When I tell him my setup he looks at me like I'm a psychopath.

I'm not saying that I know a large front bar on a GS GTI will definitely work, but idk if I would trust Sam on the GTI. I think Sam had standard ST-X coilovers and the Stranoparts rear bar on his car fwiw.

I don't know (yet) if a larger front bar (combined with a stock rear bar) will work either, but years of experience doing so successfully in the past (without any rear bar) tells me that there might be something there, at least up to a point. It will be easy to go too big here. And even at that time , all the "expert" tuners were saying the rear bar was the key, just like today. I'm up for the experiment- just need to convince myself to buckle down and do the hard work of actually doing it, knowing that if I get it wrong, I'm going to have to repeat that work to un-do it!

 

[theDoktor]

I don't think a two degree outside to middle indicates you need to do anything with the tire pressure, especially if you had your fastest run with 41 PSI.

How do you know the outside didn't cool 4 degrees while you drove to the pits and got out of your car?

What would you do if the LF temps were 116 114 107? Add pressure?

I agree that a two degree temperature difference (by itself) wouldn't mean much. However, when combined with other relevant observations, like gross excessive wear in a localized part of the tire, I need to consider doing some kind of adjustment, if possible. In this case, there was visible excessive tread wear in the center only portion of the tread too. If I was underinflated, the tire would be visibly rolling excessively onto the sidewall- it clearly was not.

Given the distance I had to travel from course end back to the staging area and both the track & ambient temperatures, I have no doubt that, at the very least, the surface temperatures of the tires did in fact drop significantly; hence the use of a probe-type pyrometer to assess the deeper tread core temperature vs. just surface temp readings.

I look at temp readings at all corners before considering adjustments. In the scenario you present, assuming the rest of the readings were the same as what I noted, I'd probably do another run at the same pressure and check again.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Whenever I've talked to Sam about GTI setup he acts like they are super loose which is really confusing. When I tell him my setup he looks at me like I'm a psychopath.

I'm not saying that I know a large front bar on a GS GTI will definitely work, but idk if I would trust Sam on the GTI. I think Sam had standard ST-X coilovers and the Stranoparts rear bar on his car fwiw.

This is why testing matters.

So many sideways comments about my setup, but I’m winning

 

[w124_karl]

That may be why turning Stability Control all the way off seems to be slower for me.

Just to make sure - you're talking about long pressing the button as "all the way off," right?

I ask because, when I ran at that local, I had used VCDS to flip a bit such that I'd get the ESC Off warning light with a long press, rather than the factory default ESC Sport setting. So when I said "all the way off" I meant that I'd made the configuration change.

Without the VCDS bit flip, my car definitely gets pissed off with me when I try to drive it like I did my dearly departed GS Focus ST from a few years ago. I didn't realize how frustrating this car is to drive in GS form until I tried the bit flip, and now I kind of wish I hadn't.