2019 G Street Nationals Dashboard

[w124_karl]

I've posted this elsewhere, but here it is. 225-45-17 Falken on a GS GTI update from the Florida Prosolo-1 practice event. Previously, I ran 245-40-17 Bridgestones, so comparisons are against those:

• I'd say the front of the car felt slightly less sharp on them, even on the road, but not badly so. Just different.
• I was out on a wet, eventually damp, surface, so nothing useful to say about their heat tolerance.
• The car was pushier than I'm used to, but that is partially a setup choice. I intentionally didn't put my usual 50-55psi in the rear tires, figuring that would just make the stability control even angrier in the wet.
• Impossible to draw conclusions from the posted results. Timing was a huge mess and I consider everything listed to be kind of suspect, at least based on my in-car video. Redlights were reported that didn't happen. And the times on the board at the trailer are different than they are officially. So...who knows.
• These tires are far better to transit on than the Bridgestones were. They're not all-season Michelin quiet, but they're damn good for what they are. They ride better too, and work great even in fairly heavy rain.

For other setup changes - I tried a scant 1/16" of rear toe-out. I could discern no change at all. Probably needs a lot more than that to be noticed, and at that point it might only anger the stability control more.

Speaking of the stability control - it did save me from going off and potentially hitting the timing lights, so I guess that's good. I wouldn't have been the first to hit the lights. Even when walking course, I commented to a member of the national staff that "somebody's probably gonna hit that light."

 

[w124_karl]

Picked up a Racecapture Track Mk. 2 and I've at least got it providing GPS and throttle info to SoloStorm. Calibrated the TPS range by driving around at idle speed in 2nd gear, then flooring it, since this car won't let you free-rev it to WOT. That on its own is a big step in the right direction.

Charlotte Pro Solo is next week. 7 in GS, one other GTI, a Focus ST, the rest Civics.

 

[theDoktor]

Best of luck at Charlotte next week. Looking forward to your report.

 

[w124_karl]

Well, Charlotte was kind of a mess. OK...it was a huge mess. 4 shifts, two groups in each, so each half of the day should have had groups 1-8 go twice. By end of day on Friday we'd only gotten through afternoon runs for group 5, leaving 6, 7, and 8 without their afternoon runs. Part of that was the late (10:00) start, which was intentional due to weather events Thursday evening causing people to not get course walks. But most of it was timing malfunctions. Tons of manual starts, tons of people getting iced on the line. It was bad.

This morning, we started at 8:30 and things were going great, but not for long. Not quite at the end of yesterday's "afternoon" runs for 7/8, SCCA called the event. I wasn't at the trailer, but apparently multiple trees were tried, many times, and they just couldn't get it together. No day-two runs, no challenges, no anything. Results stood on day 1 runs, and at least one class didn't even finish that.

Anyway, GTI stuff. Having real throttle position data was eye opening. On the launches, I'm giving up at least 0.5 per side to the Civics. I can also see, in the throttle trace, that the car closes the throttle when the traction control comes on because of wheelspin/wheel hop. It's really tricky to launch, and I haven't figured out how to reliably work around this. I cut at least one >1.0sec light trying to work around it, and that's unlike me. Part of this could have been the surface and weather - zMax can be tricky, especially in the cold/wet. I've struggled on that site before.

The traction control thing might be a showstopper for me running this car seriously anymore. It might be okay at Tours, but at Pros I think it's just never going to be real good.

More later.

 

[bfury5]

The traction control thing might be a showstopper for me running this car seriously anymore. It might be okay at Tours, but at Pros I think it's just never going to be real good.

*STH has entered the chat*

In all seriousness, driving around the driver aids is the big reason I left street class. It became more frustrating than anything

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Well, Charlotte was kind of a mess. OK...it was a huge mess. 4 shifts, two groups in each, so each half of the day should have had groups 1-8 go twice. By end of day on Friday we'd only gotten through afternoon runs for group 5, leaving 6, 7, and 8 without their afternoon runs. Part of that was the late (10:00) start, which was intentional due to weather events Thursday evening causing people to not get course walks. But most of it was timing malfunctions. Tons of manual starts, tons of people getting iced on the line. It was bad.

This morning, we started at 8:30 and things were going great, but not for long. Not quite at the end of yesterday's "afternoon" runs for 7/8, SCCA called the event. I wasn't at the trailer, but apparently multiple trees were tried, many times, and they just couldn't get it together. No day-two runs, no challenges, no anything. Results stood on day 1 runs, and at least one class didn't even finish that.

Anyway, GTI stuff. Having real throttle position data was eye opening. On the launches, I'm giving up at least 0.5 per side to the Civics. I can also see, in the throttle trace, that the car closes the throttle when the traction control comes on because of wheelspin/wheel hop. It's really tricky to launch, and I haven't figured out how to reliably work around this. I cut at least one >1.0sec light trying to work around it, and that's unlike me. Part of this could have been the surface and weather - zMax can be tricky, especially in the cold/wet. I've struggled on that site before.

The traction control thing might be a showstopper for me running this car seriously anymore. It might be okay at Tours, but at Pros I think it's just never going to be real good.

More later.

I was not a fan of Zmax sealed asphalt.

Come join street touring where you can almost mod your way out of all the GTI limitations!

 

[w124_karl]

It (STH) is something I've considered. I just hesitate to do that to a car that I really like for all of its other qualities exactly as it is.

I imagine I'll either trade it in on an ND2, or find a codrive in some other car. The latter became a possibility this weekend and it's sounding pretty compelling.

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

There has been a considerable amount of conversation with the SAC involving the allowance to turn TCS via VAGCOM. I'm hearing that they are now willing to consider a change or at least a re-clarification, even though they just said "no" again. It's a good time to write a letter on the topic.

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

My letter, 30543

Consider the cars currently competing in autocross: Does the allowance of turning TCS off make the sport better or worse?

In my opinion, the whole game of autocross is to use your hands and feet as traction control. I think 100% of competitors answer to the question above, “better.”

No matter the state of electronics and nannies in the automotive industry, turning the nannies off should ALWAYS be an option during autocross competition.

On some cars disabling traction/stability control must be done with a computer. That has been deemed illegal via rules clarification despite the original intent of the rule itself (13.9.G).

Original intent:
From SoloMatters March 2013 about Street class change, "The result is a new formula that included allowances to manage heavier vehicles, overcome electronic controls, and increase the value of the experience while staying true to the dual-purpose intention."

“The new allowances, set to take effect in 2014, address electronics, wheels and camber kits. 13.9.E specifically allows the disabling of Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control and Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems without limitations as to how. Changes to 13.4 allow a plus or minus 1 inch of change of diameter on wheels to ensure that all cars have greater access to “the tire to have.” 13.8.F and G provide allowances for camber. This allows tires to maintain better contact patches while cornering. The obvious benefit is increased tire life through reduced edge wear but the larger benefit is better handling at the limits and thus, more fun to drive.”
https://www.scca.com/articles/2003490-street-category-proposal-explained

All of the allowances mentioned in this article have remained in the rules EXCEPT using a computer to disable traction control, because of a rules clarification.

May 2016 Fastrack
“Disabling the stability control by altering the ECU code with a VAG-COM or similar is not compliant, per 13.9.G.”
(the point of 13.9.G was to allow exactly that)

Please change the wording of 13.9.G or re-clarify the rule so that all competitors may turn TCS OFF for Street category competition regardless of whether a computer is needed or not.

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

Letter from @marka
When 13.9.G was originally written, I thought it was going to allow the common "bit flip" necessary in the VAG world to allow ESC to be turned off via the traction button in the car. When I discovered that the other members of the SEB weren't interpreting those words the same way I was, it wasn't a big enough issue in the context of the Stock->Street transformation to make a big deal about.

That doesn't mean that the official interpretation of 13.9.G to not allow the software input change was a good one. Its frankly absurd that we encourage members to unplug sensors, but don't allow the extremely common method that's actually used to defeat ESC/TC in the VAG (and others?) world.

As such, please see the below wording, which I think will allow this method of defeating otherwise undefeatable ESC/TC without opening a can of worms leading to wholesale tunes.
--------------------------------
Modifications to defeat electronic stability control and/or traction control (ESC/TC) are permitted. These modification are limited to altering the inputs to the ESC/TC processor by the following methods only:
- removing fuses
- unplugging yaw, wheel speed, or steering angle sensors
- turning parameters on or off through OEM diagnostic tools
- using OEM provided driving mode selections or service mode procedures
Alternate tunes/ reflashing are explicitly forbidden. Modifications may serve no other purpose. Any incidental changes to ABS/braking performance, codes, or error lights resulting from ESC/TC modifications are permitted.
--------------------------------
in addition to making it clear that a VAG car is allowed to flip a bit in byte 29, this also makes it explicitly clear that pedal dances to access service/dyno modes are allowed, as well as accounting for some of what actually happens when you unplug sensors in the unlikely event someone really does that.

Its time to make 13.9.G relevant to what cars / car owners actually do to defeat ESC/TC that can't otherwise be turned off.

Thanks for your service!

 

[w124_karl]

Great find on that Solomatters post.

Meanwhile, I think today sealed my GS GTI’s fate as not-an-autocross-car. I did a local event on a small airport site in an STH Audi TT. It was a riot. Like a GTI which will rotate when you lift OR a when you add power. I’d never driven an all wheel drive car in competition before, and I might be won over.

 

[jmblur]

Great find on that Solomatters post.

Meanwhile, I think today sealed my GS GTI’s fate as not-an-autocross-car. I did a local event on a small airport site in an STH Audi TT. It was a riot. Like a GTI which will rotate when you lift OR a when you add power. I’d never driven an all wheel drive car in competition before, and I might be won over.

Get a golf R and have both daily usability and awd!

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Great find on that Solomatters post.

Meanwhile, I think today sealed my GS GTI’s fate as not-an-autocross-car. I did a local event on a small airport site in an STH Audi TT. It was a riot. Like a GTI which will rotate when you lift OR a when you add power. I’d never driven an all wheel drive car in competition before, and I might be won over.

Setup is key.

Why spend thousands getting a new car that you still have to setup, when you can just make the car you have work?

 

[w124_karl]

Setup is key.

Why spend thousands getting a new car that you still have to setup, when you can just make the car you have work?

That's a reasonable question, with no good answer, other than 2 years is about how long I tend to keep a car. And maybe I'm using this as an excuse to shop.

For this year at least, I don't have to do anything at all with mine. I'll be driving the TT for the rest of the year, to hopefully include Nationals. It's fully prepared apart from seats, it's a riot, and the owner has been a good friend of mine for a long time.

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

Are you talking about Aaron Buckley's car?