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EQT vs LITTCO

Hey all,

So I've been wading through the EQT and LITTCO threads, and I'm ready to pull the trigger on one of these two units. Sadly, I am half a moron (on my mother's side," and the other half is an idiot (Dear old Dad.) That's why I am asking y'all.

What are your thoughts on the two turbos? Pros/cons? Faster spool, more power, more reliability? Does one come with a free frogurt?

HEEELP!

JIM
 

pieguy

Ready to race!
Location
Bay Area
They both spool similarly and provide similar powers. Both have better thrust bearings than the crappy IS38, which has been a point of failure. Only major difference is cost. $2000 vs $2400 and one being sourced from UK and the other California, USA. EQT is also a standalone unit while the L500 using an is38 housing which shouldn't be a big difference either.
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
EQT is between the L450 and L500 power wise.

I struggled with this decision for awhile, and will write a long post about it tomorrow.
 

ChrisMk77

Autocross Champion
Location
Sweden
Car(s)
2018 GTI Performance
I saw on Littcos Facebook that they are using their own custom upgraded bearing housings now.
 

SugarMouth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Nevada
Can't go wrong with either.

Littco offers the L450 which is a BARGAIN IMO.

L450 Hybrid:
52mm OE profiled turbine
52mm 7+7 compressor wheel
Upgraded thrust bearings
CNC machined housings
IS38 Actuator
DV & Muffler included
Slow speed and VSR balance below 0.65g
400 whp or 450Bhp on the "heart breaker" DynoDynamics dyno at C1.7bar / 24.6 PSI
£1250 ( approx. $1650 )
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
There's a lot to consider when comparing the Littco and EQT offerings. First and foremost, both Ed from EQT and Dan from Littco seem to be top notch guys to do business with. I look forward to their contributions later in this thread.

Price

The L450 and EQT are very close. My L450 with Turbosmart DV, Largebore muffler delete, shipping, and $35 bank transfer fee was about $2,150. Skip the Turbosmart and that's about $1900 all in (with a DV and Actuator included).

EQT is $1845 shipped, or $2045 if you add the muffler delete and chargepipes, which you should do at this level of airflow. The stock pipes work well up to IS38 levels, but become a restriction above that. One of the EQT guys can correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't believe this includes a DV or actuator.

The L500 with the big muffler delete, shipping, and wire fee runs a little over $2600, about $700 more than the L450, so there's definitely a real increase in price to move to the bigger unit.

Power Capacity

This gets interesting. There is very limited independent data on this, so i've had to piece this together as best i can.

EQT has been very open about the fact that his dyno reads higher than average. Littco on the other hand uses a dyno that reads considerably lower than average, and publishes his numbers on Euro 99 RON (slightly better than US 93 octane).

One could look at the 500whp EQT made on their dyno with E30, and the 395whp the L450 made on their dyno, and conclude there is a giant power gap between the two turbos. In reality, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 30hp.

The EQT flows in between the L450 and L500. It uses a 53mm compressor wheel, which basically splits the difference between the L450 and L500.

EQT runs a 54mm SL2 turbine, which is 2mm larger than the L450 and identical to the L500.

On the hot side, the EQT and L500 are extremely close, however the L500 does use a slightly larger compressor.

Everything equal, the EQT will most definitely make more power than the L450, but should come up a bit short of the L500.

Response

You can't cheat physics. Turbo design has come a long way, and we can now build turbos that flow pretty well and respond pretty well, but it should come as common sense that generally speaking the more air you move, the longer it takes to get it moving.

This is dictated more by the hot side than the cold side. The L450's primary design objective was to create a turbo that would respond as fast as possible while still flowing enough to hold good power to redline.

This is a big part of why the L450 uses the stock shaft and a 2mm smaller turbine wheel, but only a 1mm smaller compressor wheel (vs EQT). Not only is the shaft itself lighter than the TD06 used in the EQT and L500, but it allows the use of wheels that are also capable of faster response.

Because the EQT is running a bigger hot side relative to the compressor, it will be a slightly more efficient turbo, especially at high boost levels. This helps control temperature and is particularly beneficial on pump gas. The trade off for that slight increase in efficiency is a slight increase in lag.

Response will be the opposite of flow. The L450 should spool earlier and quicker than the EQT, which should very slightly beat out the L500 (again, the hot sides are nearly identical).


Reliability

It's far too early to have much real world data on this. Ed did have one issue with a unit that was not properly clearanced at the factory, and the customer had a new turbo on his doorstep 2 days later, so he went above and beyond to resolve that issue as quickly as possible and work with the supplier to ensure it would not happen again. One consideration is that Littco builds all of their turbos in house. Dan is the guy physically building the turbos. EQT uses a very reputable supplier building to his specs.

The L450 uses the stock shaft, which is a known failure point on IS38s. Dan has tested this extensively and concluded that the shaft failure is not inherent of a weak shaft, but the result of other problems (bearing issues, the wheel touching the housing, or the TCU tune slamming the throttle shut at full boost and creating a pressure surge that over-stresses the shaft). His conclusion is that when the other issues are addressed, the shaft is sufficient.

The Turbosmart DV is more reliable at high boost levels, and is also much faster to react to throttle closure than the stock DV. The faster reaction reduces stress on the shaft during throttle closure. That's the only reason i added the Turbosmart DV to my purchase.

The TD06 core used in the EQT & L500 is a stronger unit than the L450.

Both companies use their own thrust bearing designs, both of which are much more durable than stock.

Value

I have to give this to EQT. You get the beefy TD06 core and higher power capacity with the EQT, for about the same cost as the L450. The EQT is at the L450 price point, but in every way it's closer to the L500.

For me, the decision came down to some of my previous experience and what my goals are for the car. I wanted the fastest responding turbo that still had the capacity to meet my goals.

I used to DD a car with a Boss 700 equivalent. It was fast but the response made it miserable to live with in the real world. My goal for this setup is to have a fast reacting turbo that can make 420-430wtq (i'm at 434wtq now with the IS38, and i feel that is the reasonable limit for tractable power on a GTI) and hold it deep enough into the RPM range to pump out well into the 4xx whp range on reasonable, reliable boost...instead of the 399whp i'm making with the IS38 on time-bomb boost.

An IS38 isn't huge by any means, but it is a significant step up from an IS20. The difference between the IS20 and IS38 is 2.7mm on the compressor and 0.6mm on the turbine. The difference between the IS38 and the L450 is 6.8mm on the compressor and 4.6mm on the turbine. This is a sizable upgrade, even more so for the EQT and L500.

Actual airflow and power capacity compared to the Boss kits remains to be seen, but the L450 has a bigger compressor than a Boss 500 (with a smaller turbine). The EQT is very close to the Boss 600 in wheel size, and the L500 matches it.

The SL2 turbine on the EQT will add a bit of lag compared to the L450, but it will pay you back for that lag with increased efficiency and more support for the additional compressor flow. The L450 should spool sooner and respond faster, but it's not going to hang with the EQT out the back door, which in turn should come up a bit short of the L500.

All have wheels and housings spec'd out by their manufacturers for the application, but the application and the approach are a bit different from the L450 to the EQT and L500.

Time will tell, but i don't think there's a wrong choice if they are used within their intended design parameters / boost levels.
 
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Cowzill00

Ready to race!
Location
Florida
^ Nice detailed writeup.
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Is the littco dyno data from a port injected row car? Also need to take that into consideration when comparing vs eqt.

Both on pump gas, fuel system should not be the limiting factor.

EQT had HPFP, Littco had the better Euro fuel system. Big consideration on the pump gas numbers is the L450 was on much better fuel than the EQT, which is why it made more power when the dyno variance is accounted for.

All things equal, the EQT should fall between the L450 and L500...sort of an "L480".
 
Wow, thanks for the great info! After reading, I definitely know which way I am leaning now.

Hoon, which way did you go?

Talking about the difference in spool, how big a difference are we talking? Do you have a sense?
 

littco

Ready to race!
Location
London
Great post.

Although I can only really comment on the L450, as the EQT does have the same turbine as the L500 so maybe I can share a little info.

The L450 is really only a 400whp turbo (450 crank) it was spec’d that way after testing with different compressor wheels, we ran a larger compressor and clipped turbine and made 480bhp but it was neither a quick spooling or high powered unit so we stuck with an unclipped and smaller 52mm compressor.

The L450 runs a stock profiled turbine but larger .

The SL2r turbine is used in our L500 and I believe in the EQT .

The L500 turbine isn’t a TD06 as we use our own larger IS38 shaft and bearings. It’s basically a beefed up IS38.

The SL2R wheel is laggier than the L450 , weight and design makes it so. However, it flows better than the L450, and it doesn’t wake up until you put over 2bar through it. We’ve had these running 2.8bar and from 2bar on the power just keeps increasing.

I think to compare the L450 and EQT isn’t really on the same level as where the L450 peaks the EQT probably starts working and the L500 which has a bigger compressor to the EQT probably goes further again.

I’m going to agree with Hoon here and say the EQT probably wins on overall value but I can assure people the L450s sheer low down performance really wins over the SL2r based units and why it’s so popular but you need to consider the EQT is going to make more power.

As for reliability, well like said we’ve tested to 2.8bar. Run sustained 2.4bar and always spec our turbos below 2bar. Ie the L450 was 450@1.8bar (actually 462@1.8bar) and the L500 500@1.95bar.
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Wow, thanks for the great info! After reading, I definitely know which way I am leaning now.

Hoon, which way did you go?

Talking about the difference in spool, how big a difference are we talking? Do you have a sense?

I was willing to trade some airflow for the response of a lighter, smaller rotating assembly, so I went with the L450.

I changed my mind about a half dozen times, but I've been down the big turbo road before and response is important to me for a regular street car.

It's going to be very hard to get an accurate measure of the difference in spool. You would basically need the same car (or identical setup) with both turbos.

The L450 is really only a 400whp turbo (450 crank)

How would you rate a stock IS38?

The L500 turbine isn’t a TD06 as we use our own larger IS38 shaft and bearings. It’s basically a beefed up IS38.

Thanks, I stand corrected.
 

psychonosspaz

Go Kart Champion
Location
PNW
Great write up - I will add that right now you can get the entire 2k package for 1800 for preorder of their EQT, which definitely makes it a great value....I plan to do extensive testing with Hoon so everyone sees the differences between the two! Like Hoon said both turbos look like great options
 
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