Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

[JackRabbitSLIM]

The turbo blanket protest was STU.

Headers are allowed to be coated and/or wrapped.

Imo the blanket is clearly illegal and I hope the protest committee keeps a level head about it. To me, the use of a blanket requires a tortured interpretation of the rule. Even if there is ambiguity, that rule is not indented to allow turbo blankets. To me the turbo is clearly not part of the exhaust, but maybe that's just me. I do feel a little bad for the Fiatas since they ruin their hoods due to heat from the turbo. David pointed out to me that they could have tried protecting their hoods though...

I think there was a similar protest or not protest at TT Nationals for a Civic R running a turbo blanket in Street or Tuner. I'll see if I can find that.
EDIT. At TT Nationals it was a Street class CTR and the blanket was allowed, hahaha. Idk where the guy was in the results though.
EDIT EDIT. Apparently he was the winner...

 

[w124_karl]

Different corner station, but working as station captain at 4/4a on the east (plane) course was really tough. It was set up in such a way that there were two cars in our area at the same time, opposite of one another. So to keep my eyes on the one that was literally pointed right at me on the way in, I had to turn my back to the one that was leaving our area. It was tough.

Not impossible, and yes, corner working is very important to get right. I'm just saying it can be tougher to do than some folks might think.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Different corner station, but working as station captain at 4/4a on the east (plane) course was really tough. It was set up in such a way that there were two cars in our area at the same time, opposite of one another. So to keep my eyes on the one that was literally pointed right at me on the way in, I had to turn my back to the one that was leaving our area. It was tough.

Not impossible, and yes, corner working is very important to get right. I'm just saying it can be tougher to do than some folks might think.

I’ve done it before, holding the clip board, radio, umbrella (raining), and flag. Its challenging for sure, but if you are shagging cones that’s your one job.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

The turbo blanket protest was STU.

Headers are allowed to be coated and/or wrapped.

Imo the blanket is clearly illegal and I hope the protest committee keeps a level head about it. To me, the use of a blanket requires a tortured interpretation of the rule. Even if there is ambiguity, that rule is not indented to allow turbo blankets. To me the turbo is clearly not part of the exhaust, but maybe that's just me. I do feel a little bad for the Fiatas since they ruin their hoods due to heat from the turbo. David pointed out to me that they could have tried protecting their hoods though...

I think there was a similar protest or not protest at TT Nationals for a Civic R running a turbo blanket in Street or Tuner. I'll see if I can find that.
EDIT. At TT Nationals it was a Street class CTR and the blanket was allowed, hahaha. Idk where the guy was in the results though.
EDIT EDIT. Apparently he was the winner...

TT has different rules, correct?

 

[pseudorealityx]

But the interesting part was the protests at the end of the results. They're serious about this stuff and a little petty.
5s penalty for being 4lbs under weight
5s penalty for a turbo blanket and disputed by the same guy, Kar... I mean Kevin
Needlessly attached so you don't have to search for them.

I'll weigh in here. The penalties are intended to keep people from "cheating". If someone didn't think it was an advantage, why spend the money and time to install it? It's clearly not a comfort/convenience item. The penalties aren't meant to create some sort of handicap system.

At your local event, we're talking about someone not getting their plastic trophy. At Nationals, people are investing real money to be at the pointy end of the field, and to drive across the country to drive against the best, using the same rules. People are combing the rules to find any advantage they can, but only up to that specific point. So something like this... I'm fine with it. There's been other protests in the past that I've thought were far more "rolling my eyes" than this one, including one that was threatened against me ~15 years ago.

 

[w124_karl]

Something else to consider when it comes to protests - people who file them often get thrown under the bus, especially if they weren't threatening for the win otherwise. I think that's maybe a little unfair - a rules infraction is a rules infraction. Shouldn't matter who files it.

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

TT has different rules, correct?

Yeah, they are different. In Tuner they are pretty close to ST. TT Street allows a lot more that autocross Street. My TT comment is totally irrelevant except that it happened there too.
I think we all agree that the protest is understandable and the blanket should not be allowed. If it is allowed, I'll buy one no problem.

At Nationals, people are investing real money to be at the pointy end of the field, and to drive across the country to drive against the best, using the same rules. People are combing the rules to find any advantage they can, but only up to that specific point. So something like this... I'm fine with it. There's been other protests in the past that I've thought were far more "rolling my eyes" than this one, including one that was threatened against me ~15 years ago.

people who file them often get thrown under the bus

I agree it's an issue that protesting turns into such a hot topic. Like, there should be protests. But the protest committees should be trained to consider advantage more than the letter of the rule in my opinion (I'm not talking about turbo blanket here, it's an advantage imo). Autocross gets such a bad wrap because of people and rules being weenies. If the protest committees were unified in assessing real advantage, the way we look at rules would be different.
Examples:
- If you are blowing sound with a perennial car
- SSC rear lower arms in STX
- broken/missing trim covers
- FRS/BRZ trunk styrofoam
Litmus test, if everyone on the committee rolls their eyes when they understand what the protest is about, they should apply no penalty no matter what the rules says

 

[pseudorealityx]

First event on the updated "real" suspension. PAX'd 6th, .353 behind the leader. Of the 5 people in front of me, 4 were at Nationals (4th, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, in their respective classes). So that feels like I'm close. Car felt hooked up, and my driving is coming back.

Now contemplating going to Charlotte to see what it does against Aaron...

 

[GTIfan99]

I'll weigh in here. The penalties are intended to keep people from "cheating". If someone didn't think it was an advantage, why spend the money and time to install it? It's clearly not a comfort/convenience item. The penalties aren't meant to create some sort of handicap system.

At your local event, we're talking about someone not getting their plastic trophy. At Nationals, people are investing real money to be at the pointy end of the field, and to drive across the country to drive against the best, using the same rules. People are combing the rules to find any advantage they can, but only up to that specific point. So something like this... I'm fine with it. There's been other protests in the past that I've thought were far more "rolling my eyes" than this one, including one that was threatened against me ~15 years ago.

A lot of people use same car for autocross and TT/ tracking. There are certainly mods that don't offer an advantage in one, but may in the other.

It's kind of a pain to make a car eligible for both, reliable in both, and not run afoul somewhere.

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

Now contemplating going to Charlotte to see what it does against Aaron...

Get a catch can.

 

[pseudorealityx]

Get a catch can.

Why's that?

 

[jmblur]

First event on the updated "real" suspension. PAX'd 6th, .353 behind the leader. Of the 5 people in front of me, 4 were at Nationals (4th, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, in their respective classes). So that feels like I'm close. Car felt hooked up, and my driving is coming back.

Now contemplating going to Charlotte to see what it does against Aaron...

What's your "real" suspension setup?

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Get a catch can.

Because the Lincoln surface, and maybe others, the grip shoots oil out the PCV and into the intake, causing power loss, and trophy loss.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

What's your "real" suspension setup?

In his sig

"'17 SE: Sachs coilovers with custom rates, Vorshlag camber plates, 034 rear bar, SuperPro LCA caster bushings, ProFlex LCA camber bushings, Macan brakes, 17x9 Apex SM-10s w/Falken RT660's, JB4, MAP downpipe, intercooler."

 

[GTIfan99]

Ride heights, center of wheel to fender. Let's see em.