Gbot's 19R 2.5VR6T Build

[Salami]

Did I read that correctly? Only 500hp?

The video said 550/550 and he mentioned on the "rollers" so I passing that means to the wheels.

@gboticus is that figure to the wheels?

 

[gboticus]

The video said 550/550 and he mentioned on the "rollers" so I passing that means to the wheels.

@gboticus is that figure to the wheels?

Not having seen a dyno plot I would defer to @Jonathan_HPA and a future video/communication on that Keep your eyes peeled for more updates.

 

[scrllock]

Unless the cost is absurdly cheap I don't know why anyone would bother with this vs. just a built 2.0. HPA's VR6 costs have always been astronomical

Now, if they were breaking 800hp, I'd understand. But for power that anyone can get from a hybrid turbo on a 2.0?

 

[manu97]

Unless the cost is absurdly cheap I don't know why anyone would bother with this vs. just a built 2.0. HPA's VR6 costs have always been astronomical

View attachment 284625

Now, if they were breaking 800hp, I'd understand. But for power that anyone can get from a hybrid turbo on a 2.0?

I assume heat would be less in a VR6? Unless that's me being foolish lol, I always assumed a bigger turbo on a smaller engine would more inefficient ->more heat.

 

[gboticus]

Unless the cost is absurdly cheap I don't know why anyone would bother with this vs. just a built 2.0. HPA's VR6 costs have always been astronomical

View attachment 284625

Now, if they were breaking 800hp, I'd understand. But for power that anyone can get from a hybrid turbo on a 2.0?

Yes this was brought up a few pages back. I can say absolutely is not a 100k build, but I am not allowed to discuss actual pricing: you are free to contact Marcel directly at HPA to discuss though!

 

[scrllock]

I assume heat would be less in a VR6? Unless that's me being foolish lol, I always assumed a bigger turbo on a smaller engine would more inefficient ->more heat.

Yeah, for an all-out track car, less power per cylinder is great. But I don't know of any racing orgs where a boosted 6cyl swap doesn't put you in some crazy class that a golf would never be competitive in.
So I assume the audience is people doing roll/drag racing? So people are just adding weight for 550hp? And when your motor blows, you have to hope the one shop in north america with blocks still has them? Don't get me wrong, it's lots of cool points, but I really don't get this unless you have way more money than sense.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

The target market for hpa vr6 builds have never been for street racers let alone practical spenders though.

 

[LVGolfR]

550 i thought. But yeah, I was also disappointed by that number. I'm sure the torque curve is meatier than a hybrid turbo, but still, not the most impressive considering the original engine could do the same.


Now if they start talking about >650hp figures, with a nice torque curve? Sold.

I’m curious to see the differences in the engine. Maybe that’s as high as you can go for reliability? Also curious to see if it’s trans limited. People push past that with the gen 3 but I imagine the torque curve is a little more brutal in the VR. The exhaust mani is really small so could get really hot or not flow enough? I’m just guessing. I can’t imagine they went back to the forged crank of the mk3 and mk4 after they went cast on the mk5. Anyone have detailed info on the 2.5?

 

[gboticus]

I’m curious to see the differences in the engine. Maybe that’s as high as you can go for reliability? Also curious to see if it’s trans limited. People push past that with the gen 3 but I imagine the torque curve is a little more brutal in the VR. The exhaust mani is really small so could get really hot or not flow enough? I’m just guessing. I can’t imagine they went back to the forged crank of the mk3 and mk4 after they went cast on the mk5. Anyone have detailed info on the 2.5?

You can find some fairly accurate data on wikipedia about the long block: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol_engines#2.5_VR6_24v_TSI_(EA390). I can fill in some gaps based on what I'm familiar with as well.

A balance of reliability and power is absolutely one of the main balancing points, and something to bear in mind is that this is the first stage of this whole system and platform. HPA's always been about reliability, and streetability over absolute high end power. They could take it further and harder down the line. As Marcel pointed out in the videos, the engine's valvetrain is built out, with a big turbo and MPI (not part of the factory engine assembly) among many other upgrades/improvements.

As for the transmission: the uprated clutchpack should hold over 600 ft-lb of crank torque.

 

[Daks]

What did you do with your 2.0?

 

[gboticus]

What did you do with your 2.0?

They bought the whole assembly back to offset the cost of the swap. Quite convenient and nice actually!

 

[MonkeyMD]

Can it be paired with a manual or is it dsg only.
Not that I'm in that tax bracket to do it

 

[Daks]

Do you have the car now, are you driving it?

 

[gboticus]

Can it be paired with a manual or is it dsg only.
Not that I'm in that tax bracket to do it

Saw a guy swap this engine into a MK4 manual on their own, and a MK7 TSI swap w/ manual so it's certainly possible. For the first run I know HPA is only swapping 7.5R w/ DQ381. If someone has budget and patience though they will make it happen for you.

Do you have the car now, are you driving it?

I'm still driving mine around. There's one more technical issue they're solving which is preventing the assembly line from starting. It's not stopping them from putting the #1 through it's paces (as you all have seen lol) but will affect the BoM/fabrication for every swap after it. Doesn't make sense to check mine in if they have to stop mid way and refab/build some element of it.

The good news is that when the time comes, I won't be without the car for a few years like #1 lol. 4-6 weeks expected, and potentially less if it all goes buttery smooth. As more swaps are completed they'll bring that time down significantly.

 

[scrllock]

I’m curious to see the differences in the engine. Maybe that’s as high as you can go for reliability? Also curious to see if it’s trans limited. People push past that with the gen 3 but I imagine the torque curve is a little more brutal in the VR. The exhaust mani is really small so could get really hot or not flow enough? I’m just guessing. I can’t imagine they went back to the forged crank of the mk3 and mk4 after they went cast on the mk5. Anyone have detailed info on the 2.5?

vr6 isn't really a good motor for exhaust flow either.