tigeo
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Richmond, VA area
This is so good w/r to showing the difference!
7
front sway bars
- Thread starter tigeo
- Start date
Hammersticks
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- Bay Area, CA
- Car(s)
- '16 GTI, '18 e-Golf
been a while…still no regrets. https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/hammersticks-less-is-more-mk7-gti.340022/post-6971961
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Faceman
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- Long Island
- Car(s)
- '17 GSW 4Mo
WhAt AbOuT tHe UnDeRsTeEr? 
@tigeo or anyone else that have more experience than me, especially on this car. The only real experience with front sway bars was on my 2018 Silverado which I added the Hellwig bars, just like on the GTI I started with the rear and after seeing the improvement I upgraded the front. Results were nothing short of amazing, especially for a lowered crew cab behemoth of a truck. Right now I have the ECS rear bar, bought it because it was at a reasonable price (on sale with the aluminum bracket) and I am considering upgrading the front now. Since I am installing H&R OEs with Koni yellows, I thought it would make sense to get the bar and do the entire thing at once to save me a second trip to the alignment shop. I also ordered one of those Chinese dead set kits... they are 7075 aluminum so should hold up to my daily driver car.
My question is, having the rear ECS, would it be ok to use a different brand front? H&R fronts, either 26 or 28 are close to $300, or should I buy a set? There are a few sets available for $470-$555 depending on the brand. Hotchkis, H&R, and Eibach are the ones I am considering at this time.
I don't track, but I drive like I do most of the time. Especially around people on the left lane holding hands to the driver next to him while driving 5 under the speed limit.
My question is, having the rear ECS, would it be ok to use a different brand front? H&R fronts, either 26 or 28 are close to $300, or should I buy a set? There are a few sets available for $470-$555 depending on the brand. Hotchkis, H&R, and Eibach are the ones I am considering at this time.
I don't track, but I drive like I do most of the time. Especially around people on the left lane holding hands to the driver next to him while driving 5 under the speed limit.
Shouldn't be any problem mixing the brands as far as I know.
tigeo
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Richmond, VA area
No issues at all really. H&R bars are the bomb. They have teflon-impregnated bushings and never make any noise/need greasing. I run the 27 up front and 25 out back on my wagon as it's the same kit as a Golf R. I'd just try to get one that matched the diameter of the common kits for the GTI.
Cool, the H&R kit I am looking at is the one with Front: 26mm; adjustable. Rear: 24mm; non-adjustable. #72787. The Hotchkis is a tubular F: 28.5 - R:25.5, but not adjustable as far as I know. My preference is the H&R, but Hotchkis discontinued the kit and the the available ones out there are on Closeout deals around $75 cheaper than the H&R... probably will make my mind up later tonight.
DerHase
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Hampton Roads, VA
- Car(s)
- 2019 GTI Rabbit
I have a stock suspension GTI other than the sway bars and camber plates - IMO I don't foresee wanting much more front roll stiffness as is - and I have the 26mm H&R front set on soft. I DO intend on testing, but realistically there will be a point of diminishing returns. It's already pretty noticeable on one-wheel bump type scenarios. When you have a considerably larger amount of roll resistance coming from bars vs springs, it means in roll the motion will be under-damped (or normal two wheel bump will be over damped to compensate).
Like everything there's a balance, but the 26mm set on soft is already a marked improvement. Hoping to test soft vs hard settings up front in May. Honestly I expect a difference in feel but no discernible difference in laptime. Most likely will require slightly different driving styles to make the most of each setting. I expect the harder bar to be quicker on turn in and maybe mid corner, but the softer bar to put power down sooner/better. Those are just my expectations, and very well could be wrong.
Like everything there's a balance, but the 26mm set on soft is already a marked improvement. Hoping to test soft vs hard settings up front in May. Honestly I expect a difference in feel but no discernible difference in laptime. Most likely will require slightly different driving styles to make the most of each setting. I expect the harder bar to be quicker on turn in and maybe mid corner, but the softer bar to put power down sooner/better. Those are just my expectations, and very well could be wrong.
tigeo
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Richmond, VA area
I'd like to run mine on soft and try it as it's always been on the stiffest setting since install. I 100% agree on underdamped in roll - you can see it here in my video at ~11:15.
xXDavidCXx
Autocross Champion
- Location
- AZ
- Car(s)
- 2017 GTI SE DSG
When I ran my Hotchkis on stiff, I was picking up the inside tire on corner exit, which is not ideal, especially if you are not PP/diff equipped.
El_bigote_AJ
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Las Vegas
- Car(s)
- 2019 GTI bunny
I
Ive been running the ST 25mm rear bar mixed with the hotchkis front bar (it is adjustable) for over 2 years now, I run it on the softer setting cause with street driving and 265 tires the car wanted to track the road Im perfection waay too much on the stiffer setting
Ive been running the ST 25mm rear bar mixed with the hotchkis front bar (it is adjustable) for over 2 years now, I run it on the softer setting cause with street driving and 265 tires the car wanted to track the road Im perfection waay too much on the stiffer setting
daujin_mk7
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- PA
- Car(s)
- 2016 GTI DSG
If you are still looking, Tirerack had the cheapest price on the H&R kits including 28mm front and 26mm rear. When I purchased a few months ago, both kits were listed around $530. I got 8% cash back through my credit card. Total cost was around $490.
That's where I am probably getting the H&Rs. I had to postpone some purchases as the IRS wants some extra money this year to maintain the "unemployed"...
No blanket statement on sway bars will cover everyone’s use case. But a general rule of thumb depending on how you use your car looks like this:
For autox: upgrade the rear. You want to decrease grip in the rear which will help the car to rotate for all the slaloms, sweepers, and tight corners in the course.
For track (which is what a lot ppl in this thread seem to be doing): YMMV with how you want to setup the car and make it feel. Generally upgrading both will make the car much more stable since you’re decreasing the body roll and camber change as you corner at high speeds, which gives you that sense of confidence. and weight transfer alone (i.e. trail braking and not overcooking corners in general) can help the car to rotate just enough without experiencing the terminal “understeer” that happens when upgrading the fronts only. You will understeer more than just the rear bar upgrade, there’s no denying that truth.
For daily: upgrade neither, one, both. You probably won’t tell the difference unless you drive the car somewhat on the limit. Def not needed on a daily but you can upgrade whatever you want to achieve the handling characteristics from the above scenarios.
Just my .02 cents, I think upgrading just the rear has its place which depends on how the car will be used, and ultimately how the driver wants to set it up.
For autox: upgrade the rear. You want to decrease grip in the rear which will help the car to rotate for all the slaloms, sweepers, and tight corners in the course.
For track (which is what a lot ppl in this thread seem to be doing): YMMV with how you want to setup the car and make it feel. Generally upgrading both will make the car much more stable since you’re decreasing the body roll and camber change as you corner at high speeds, which gives you that sense of confidence. and weight transfer alone (i.e. trail braking and not overcooking corners in general) can help the car to rotate just enough without experiencing the terminal “understeer” that happens when upgrading the fronts only. You will understeer more than just the rear bar upgrade, there’s no denying that truth.
For daily: upgrade neither, one, both. You probably won’t tell the difference unless you drive the car somewhat on the limit. Def not needed on a daily but you can upgrade whatever you want to achieve the handling characteristics from the above scenarios.
Just my .02 cents, I think upgrading just the rear has its place which depends on how the car will be used, and ultimately how the driver wants to set it up.
xXDavidCXx
Autocross Champion
- Location
- AZ
- Car(s)
- 2017 GTI SE DSG
While I appreciate your efforts to help the OP, this claim is full of half-truths and outright false statements.
In autocross, you don't want to decrease grip anywhere if you don't have to.
I know why you say to get a RSB, and some of it is MK7 fanboy love of the RSB being the best first mod, and some of it is stock autocrossing restrictions from days bygone when you could only modify the rear bar.
The truth is, the OEM rear bar is enough to lift the rear tire in a corner, especially with good 200tw tires. A larger rear bar just lifts that tire higher and imposes a greater crushing load on the outside front tire, INCREASING understeer. That front tire already does not have enough negative camber to deal with the normal load of the OEM bar and a bad (safe) OEM alignment.
What is needed, as you eventually point out, is less body roll to reduce camber loss.
So if this is true, why did you recommend a bigger rear bar?
The truth is I don't think you know better, and that's okay as it's never too late to learn new things.
What (G-street) autocrossers should be doing is getting a mild FSB, and using the rear toe as a tool for getting the car to "rotate", not "decreasing grip" to achieve rotation.
I'm in the Street Touring (STH) class and I have both bars and springs AND rear toe out for rotation. You would be amazed how well the car handles slaloms, sweepers, and tight corners.