DSC Sport/APR Suspension Controller Tuning

[yakboyslim]

Acceleration table is definitely an issue. Zeroed everything out with the exception of launch. I tried leaving the table how it came from DSC it makes the car way worse any time I step on the pedal a bit. Just zero this out for all files imo.

I owe you some logs buddy if I ever get time hahah

Yeah, I need to find the email with the quote from DSC, but it was basically "oh, yeah, we don't use the acceleration table anymore. It doesn't work right. Make it all zeroes." Which is helpful advice, and definitely true, but they really should fix their base maps.

 

[Cuzoe]

Yeah, I need to find the email with the quote from DSC, but it was basically "oh, yeah, we don't use the acceleration table anymore. It doesn't work right. Make it all zeroes." Which is helpful advice, and definitely true, but they really should fix their base maps.

Not only them, APR should also inform all their customers to make that update. Did they ever get back to you about having all three driving modes work?

 

[yakboyslim]

Not only them, APR should also inform all their customers to make that update. Did they ever get back to you about having all three driving modes work?

Nope, DSC basically said they never saw it. DSC said they reached out to APR about it, but hadn't heard back.

I do think APR/DSC need to fix it, or at the least make people aware, but I ended up with a bunch of other things on my plate and stopped pursuing it.

 

[Cuzoe]

Nope, DSC basically said they never saw it. DSC said they reached out to APR about it, but hadn't heard back.

I do think APR/DSC need to fix it, or at the least make people aware, but I ended up with a bunch of other things on my plate and stopped pursuing it.

Gotcha... I'm thinking they are not working on it, unfortunately. APR's product page overview...

The controller still retains factory comfort and sport functionally, and it doesn't compromise ride quality for performance. However, both modes rapidly increase performance depending on various inputs such as acceleration, brake pressure, G-forces, steering angle, speed, and damper shaft velocity.

I'm reading that as an acknowledgement that there are only two modes with the controller. But it's thrown into the paragraph as if cars with DCC only have two modes, which to my knowledge is never true. They almost make it sound like a feature when it should be a disclaimer, IMHO. Even if having two modes is no problem (and it may not be, especially for customers that are going to do their own tuning) it should be noted.

@Arin@APR are you able to confirm that installing the Suspension Controller means losing a driving mode, or whether APR is working on this?

Even if it has now been acknowledged/accepted as fact I suppose that was not the intended design, as I thought I read earlier in the thread that there are 3 maps in the software.

 

[Klrider44]

Gotcha... I'm thinking they are not working on it, unfortunately. APR's product page overview...

The controller still retains factory comfort and sport functionally, and it doesn't compromise ride quality for performance. However, both modes rapidly increase performance depending on various inputs such as acceleration, brake pressure, G-forces, steering angle, speed, and damper shaft velocity.

I'm reading that as an acknowledgement that there are only two modes with the controller. But it's thrown into the paragraph as if cars with DCC only have two modes, which to my knowledge is never true. They almost make it sound like a feature when it should be a disclaimer, IMHO. Even if having two modes is no problem (and it may not be, especially for customers that are going to do their own tuning) it should be noted.

@Arin@APR are you able to confirm that installing the Suspension Controller means losing a driving mode, or whether APR is working on this?

Even if it has now been acknowledged/accepted as fact I suppose that was not the intended design, as I thought I read earlier in the thread that there are 3 maps in the software.

There are 3 modes available in the DSC software. Now whether or not the car can access all 3 maps is apparently another story. The controller seems very capable but having the knowledge to tune it is the issue. I’m just going off of feel at this point and I think I have made some progress at least as far as what want from the car.

I would like to pop the stock controller back in at some point to refresh my point of view.

 

[Cuzoe]

I have no doubt, from what you all have posted, that the tuning/changes work. No reason they shouldn't really, and I would quite like to get one and play around. But from @yakboyslim's troubleshooting and digging the car does not send the request for Comfort mode when the DSC/APR controller is installed. So you only ever get 2 modes, Normal and Sport.

In my case where I drive in Comfort 99% of the time I would modify the DSC/APR Normal map to be soft like Comfort, and then Sport would be Sport. Heck I could even modify my driving profile dataset so that my car only shows 2 modes. But that isn't really the issue I guess. The issue is that you no longer have 3 modes available once you install the DSC/APR Controller... which is not correct.

 

[yakboyslim]

I have no doubt, from what you all have posted, that the tuning/changes work. No reason they shouldn't really, and I would quite like to get one and play around. But from @yakboyslim's troubleshooting and digging the car does not send the request for Comfort mode when the DSC/APR controller is installed. So you only ever get 2 modes, Normal and Sport.

In my case where I drive in Comfort 99% of the time I would modify the DSC/APR Normal map to be soft like Comfort, and then Sport would be Sport. Heck I could even modify my driving profile dataset so that my car only shows 2 modes. But that isn't really the issue I guess. The issue is that you no longer have 3 modes available once you install the DSC/APR Controller... which is not correct.

I think with modifying a dataset it might be possible to avoid the issue with the gateway "realizing" that the DCC controller isn't there. My theory is that the 5Q0 gateway has a dataset that changes based on communication with the DCC controller. I only looked into dataset modifications a little (enough to see that the 5Q0 is still relatively undefined) but I thought I saw something that might imply that was a possibility. My guess is the thought at some point was VW could have one dataset for both DCC and non-DCC cars, but then didn't carry that logic over to the radio, etc. That's just me thinking though.

The APR/DSC definitely has three modes, and will respond to the suspension modes sent from the gateway. But since it does not communicate on CAN (only listens) it looks like that causes the gateway to change its logic.


I'm pretty happy right now with only normal (that I use for street) and sport (that I'm setting up for track) since the adjustment in DSC does a better job of finding a good comfort/sporty mix in normal. It is frustrating though that there is some functionality that just doesn't work (and I personally don't think DSC or APR cares to fix it)

 

[Cuzoe]

Yea I shared your feeling that it's not going to be fixed, unfortunately.

I don't know anything about the 5Q0 data set. With the 3Q0 you can have all types of things set up in the data set, whether the car has them or not. All of those controls and options will show even though they aren't doing anything.

When I first retrofitted driving modes (prior to learning about/how to modify them) I had to run a GTI data set. And the only ones I could find with DCC also had the DSG and the e-LSD. So for several months I had both those controls showing in the driving profiles, although they did nothing since my car had neither. But this did not generate any faults. Those items were note coded as "installed" in the gateway of course.

 

[HuntR]

I think with modifying a dataset it might be possible to avoid the issue with the gateway "realizing" that the DCC controller isn't there. My theory is that the 5Q0 gateway has a dataset that changes based on communication with the DCC controller. I only looked into dataset modifications a little (enough to see that the 5Q0 is still relatively undefined) but I thought I saw something that might imply that was a possibility. My guess is the thought at some point was VW could have one dataset for both DCC and non-DCC cars, but then didn't carry that logic over to the radio, etc. That's just me thinking though.

The APR/DSC definitely has three modes, and will respond to the suspension modes sent from the gateway. But since it does not communicate on CAN (only listens) it looks like that causes the gateway to change its logic.


I'm pretty happy right now with only normal (that I use for street) and sport (that I'm setting up for track) since the adjustment in DSC does a better job of finding a good comfort/sporty mix in normal. It is frustrating though that there is some functionality that just doesn't work (and I personally don't think DSC or APR cares to fix it)

Does this device flatten the car out in corners I.e, reduce body roll street driving? I have heard it does, but hard to find real world reviews specific to Golf R.

 

[Cuzoe]

DCC already does that, or at least it does in my car in Sport. This controller gives you more control over how it does it though.

 

[yakboyslim]

^^ This. Both the DCC and this DSC/APR controller do similar things - they dynamically adjust damping to allow for soft compliant comfortable ride, while increasing to control motion when cornering, braking, etc. There are small differences in what inputs are used to do this, but the big difference is this is adjustable, where DCC requires you to be happy with what the VW engineers set.

For my opinion, the DSC is a good option if you want to keep comfortability while allowing stiffer shock settings - but ONLY if you are willing to take the time to adjust the maps. The base map from DSC (which is the same as the one from APR) is, in my opinion, worse than the stock DCC settings. Couple that with probably losing the use of comfort mode, and the DSC controller is not a good option for anyone as it comes in the box.

This is a tuning tool, like a Cobb Accessport. It is only useful if you tune with it. In fact imagine a Cobb Accessport that comes with a base map... for a different car.... with typos. If you just install this controller and use it stock it is probably worse than OEM. If you are willing to make some simple changes to the map it becomes useful. And if you are willing to log with it, and revise your map several times based on both data and feedback it becomes a pretty decent tool - that is probably only worth its price used.

 

[HuntR]

Thanks guys, so while it is a "Direct plug-and-play upgrade", it requires a lot of your time to make it do anything worthwhile lol.
And while APR claim "The experience is absolutely transformative" it a perhaps not a good "experience" unless you flog the tuning suite out of it. I was under the impression it was simply plug-and-play resulting in a higher degree of 'control' and improved handling, not just softer. Reading APR's Overview makes it sound that way to me..., but perhaps I was just reading into it too much.

 

[yakboyslim]

Thanks guys, so while it is a "Direct plug-and-play upgrade", it requires a lot of your time to make it do anything worthwhile lol.
And while APR claim "The experience is absolutely transformative" it a perhaps not a good "experience" unless you flog the tuning suite out of it. I was under the impression it was simply plug-and-play resulting in a higher degree of 'control' and improved handling, not just softer. Reading APR's Overview makes it sound that way to me..., but perhaps I was just reading into it too much.

That's definitely what their glossy brochure says. I think DSC/APR have really failed to correctly market this product for what it is - a tuning tool.

Though I will say the base map velocity table is decent (for stock DCC shocks) and just zeroing out the acceleration table makes the base maps probably better than stock DCC, but not by enough to justify the cost.

That's not to say I'm unhappy with mine. For the price I got mine used, I'm very happy with the tuning capabilities.

 

[Cuzoe]

Yaaaaa... who is selling a used one? I would buy one, maybe third hand .

 

[G4ndalf]

I’m curious if anyone has resolved any of the issues discussed on this thread. It looks like it’s an issue with GTI’s regarding the modes, or is it the same case with the GOF R’s?