DSC Sport/APR Suspension Controller Tuning

[Mosquito]

What if DSC developed the controller in good faith and committed to a MOQ, then ran into a wall with a problem that exceeded their abilities to solve. What if during that time APR became involved, realized it wouldn't pan out and thus realized there was no business interest to be had, until enough time had passed that they could turn to be the channel through which to liquidate the produced product at a bargain and for a profit. Look at the packaging. I have seen their response on this, but do you honestly think an original, one off, no competition - $1000+ USD product from one of the biggest automotive companies in the US comes in a cheaper package than a China made - 3' HDMI cable from Amazon?

The story goes back years across forums. There is a lot that isn't known, but you know the saying.

 

[yakboyslim]

Yep, the software is so hobbled together too. The fact that the "proprietary log format" is just csv with bad formatting of the variable names says everything about how well thought out the product is.

Also that APR didn't even bother to change anything in the base file when releasing their version says a lot. - EDIT: Turns out the base file is APR's updated one, that they allowed DSC to use since they didn't want to lock it down.

 

[Klrider44]

APR was supposedly roped in on the "2 modes" issue, but never responded in anyway. I don't know if that was DSC blowing smoke though, or if they really did tell APR about the issues. @Arin@APR

I wish I didn't agree. I was excited to make some tools so that logging and tuning with this wasn't so awful, but I can't fix this core stuff since I think fundamentally their architecture decision to not talk on CAN prevents this from ever being solved. The inability from the company to realize that or acknowledge it means this will never get fixed, and I don't think they have enough interest in the MQB community to bother truthfully.

Would like to hear from APR on this issue. Can we get three modes like factory or not?

 

[Cuzoe]

I think we'd all like to hear from either party on this issue. I don't think we will. APR has been tagged several times in the last couple pages without a response. Not saying the forum is where they should provide answers but they haven't even acknowledged it with a "we're looking into it with no projected timeline" which is a response in a way.

I'm slightly sympathetic to what @Mosquito said. But then they (DSC and APR) need to put the issues on their product page. They could set the price however they want, as long as people know what they are buying. Obviously I (we) think that should be lower than the original price because the original price is for a product they are not delivering, but that's still their choice.

Even with the as delivered tuning being un-ideal (more or less so depending on your suspension setup) it's still a pretty neat tool to be able to tune suspension performance yourself, especially with @yakboyslim's additional tools.

At $200-250 I would buy one, buy a DCC module pigtail and a two-pole switch and put this controller right next to the factory one. I would run them in parallel using the switch to transfer power and ground to the one I want to use daily/track or canyon cruises. I'm not saying they can/should sell them at that price, just saying that's what I'd be willing to pay.

 

[Arin@APR]

Hello everyone, I was just made aware of this thread. I see I was tagged, but I missed this thread before. I’ve only read a few points (not the entire thing). Looks like there are two main concerns:

APR file vs DSC file:

The APR File is the latest version that we created. DSC now offers it on their website. We spoke about locking this but felt it was best whoever makes an improvement (APR or DSC) everyone gets access.

Map modes / Communication:

There are 3 maps for the different modes. Scan tools cannot read from the suspension controller, and the values you are seeing are not communicating with or affecting the suspension controller. You must use the controller software to read the mode.

Further questions or concerns:

Speaking with our support team, it's best to follow up with them directly, rather than me. They'll be able to provide you with the support you need. Suppor@goapr.com or +1 (334) 502-5181. Thank you!

 

[scrllock]

Map modes / Communication:

There are 3 maps for the different modes. Scan tools cannot read from the suspension controller, and the values you are seeing are not communicating with or affecting the suspension controller. You must use the controller software to read the mode.

This still does not address the gateway bugs preventing some users from using all modes.

 

[Cuzoe]

This still does not address the gateway bugs preventing some users from using all modes.

This part. It isn't that the DSC/APR doesn't have 3 maps... it clearly does. It's that the lack of proper CAN bus communication from the DSC/APR back to the car.

Which is causing the car to not send requests for 3 modes. And the problem has been isolated to the DSC/APR. When the OEM DCC Module is reinstalled the car begins sending 3 different mode requests.

 

[Arin@APR]

We'll take a look.

 

[yakboyslim]

Map modes / Communication:

There are 3 maps for the different modes. Scan tools cannot read from the suspension controller, and the values you are seeing are not communicating with or affecting the suspension controller. You must use the controller software to read the mode.

I found this problem originally by logging with the DSC controller. I was doing tuning of the velocity table so I had very specific, easy to recognize settings for comfort mode, and I could see that they were never activated (it always followed my settings for the normal mode).

The things being read in scan tools are what is being requested of the module. If the car cannot request comfort mode, then you don't have access to that mode, regardless of whether the DSC/APR controller would respond to it if the request was sent. The DSC/APR controller will happily go into comfort mode, but because it does not communicate on the CANbus, then the car gives up requesting it.

This problem also doesn't always occur, though it does seem to always occur eventually. Basically, once the car "realizes" the DSC controller is not talking the car stops acting like comfort is available (even though it is). It could be argued that this is the fault of the car, but the DSC/APR controller is designed to work with it as an aftermarket part, so it is important that it actually works on the architecture of the CANbus.

 

[euroslvt]

We'll take a look.

Any update? @Arin@APR

 

[2019 Golf R]

Bump up - my APR/DSC unit just failed after 3 months. APR is providing a full refund as I don't want to go through with the hassle of replacing this unit every few months if it's going to stop working.

I do wish this product was more polished - it has incredible potential - the APR base map worked very well on standard DCC suspension. Hopefully, more development time can be given to hardware robustness, ability to manage the CANBUS signals and a wider range of tolerance for the sensors that communicate through this module (lighting in particular).

 

[euroslvt]

Mine will not longer connect to my laptop. Ports are correct, drivers are correct. Started throwing the headlight and suspension faults and now will no longer communicate. This is the second time this has happened to an original DSC controller. First time flashing the ecu wiped out the DSC controller in 2021. Not sure what happened this year, car has been sitting on a trickle charger all summer. Not sure if it’s worth sending back or just reinstall the stock controller.

 

[gcjin2007]

Getting caught up with this thread. Did some testing myself. 2016 GTI PP 6MT. 5Q0 is my software number.

I am getting “2” values on comfort and normal
“3” values on sport and individual.

However no matter how I switch the damper settings on individual mode. There is always a value 3. When I put on comfort dampers on individual mode the value is still 3. However I definitely feel the dampers are in comfort mode.

Also I hear what you guys are saying about 2 and 3 and no 1 value. But I definitely feel a difference in comfort and normal modes. Call me crazy, but I still objectively feel a difference in comfort and normal modes. Is this wrong?

Keep in mind I only played with the g values only on my “custom” setup.

 

[Cuzoe]

I would have to ask what it means to "objectively feel" a difference? Objective would be measurable, while feel would be subjective.

It's worth keeping in mind how driving profiles work, mainly that the DSC controller is, like the OEM controller, the recipient of commands from driving profile selection. In this case the command is one, two, or three (comfort, normal or sport).

So if the one command is never sent the controller, whether it be DSC or OEM, is not being commanded to comfort (or whatever map you have saved in the number one profile on the DSC controller).

Do you have any measured data to show a difference in comfort with command 2 versus normal with command 2?

That is really the only way to know. Additionally, when you are in individual mode and choose a DCC setting you should be getting command values of one, two or three. The fact that you are always seeing three is wrong.

 

[Cuzoe]

All my yammering aside, if it feels good to you, and you don't have other faults (or c don't are about them if you do have them) then roll on and enjoy! The ability to tune your suspension is damn cool.

Knowing myself, and how much work I've put into messing around with driving profiles, I couldn't live with knowing this thing wasn't respecting my commands lol. And even so find myself looking at the classifieds seeing if someone else that doesn't like the faults is so fed up they're selling it for a song .