DCC Retrofit

[Cuzoe]

A switch with variable voltage can be easily done, if i was to install the shocks and left them unplugged would they be left on it's last setting or would it reset to a default setting?

Id essentially use the shocks like the mk6 shocks that have set modes just on a button rather than bother with the level controls and shizz

They go into failsafe mode if unplugged (or if there is a system fault). At that point they act like normal non-adjustable dampers.

I'm not sure what you mean by "like the mk6 shocks though," as my understanding is they also used level sensors. I don't know of a VAG adaptive damper system that is as simple is set modes/voltages. Forgive me here, but I'm struggling to see what you hope to achieve.

The dampers don't retain previous mode if voltage is lost. So let's assume we know an "at rest" voltage for each mode. Agreed that installing a variable switch is easy. But you're going to need wiring from the switch to each damper otherwise they go into failsafe.

Why do all that work for a half-arsed DCC that doesn't give you most of the DCC benefits. You could just get manually adjustable dampers that will probably perform better while being less expensive.

 

[GT15JCG]

They go into failsafe mode if unplugged (or if there is a system fault). At that point they act like normal non-adjustable dampers.

I'm not sure what you mean by "like the mk6 shocks though," as my understanding is they also used level sensors. I don't know of a VAG adaptive damper system that is as simple is set modes/voltages. Forgive me here, but I'm struggling to see what you hope to achieve.

The dampers don't retain previous mode if voltage is lost. So let's assume we know an "at rest" voltage for each mode. Agreed that installing a variable switch is easy. But you're going to need wiring from the switch to each damper otherwise they go into failsafe.

Why do all that work for a half-arsed DCC that doesn't give you most of the DCC benefits. You could just get manually adjustable dampers that will probably perform better while being less expensive.

Yeah very true. I can get front and rear shocks for about £300-£400, my guess it will cost probably double to get it properly retrofitted.

I only want the 3 damping modes im not fussed with it being retrofitted into the drive modes or having it make micro adjustments depending on speed or load.

The goal is to swap the springs for lowering springs and have 3 suspension settings that can be changed by a flick of a button. The ride won't be half as good as having it fully retrofitted but it will be better than the stock non dcc suspension, plus i think it cool to have a budget/hacked together dcc suspension setup that lowers the car.

Seems less effort to run a few wires compared to calibrating modules etc..

 

[Cuzoe]

I guess our definitions of cool differ, haha. What you will end up with should not be considered Dynamic Chassis Control at all.

I would suspect that pairing DCC dampers with lowering springs and not being able to calibrate them (which effectively sets the "center" for the variable voltage that you want to control via a switch/button) means they are going to ride terribly.

You are going to have a similar problem, but worse, that many people have with factory DCC on lowering springs if they don't do the calibration. That is their DCC module always thinks the suspension is under compression so the dampers stay at the stiffer range of each respective mode. Consequently all 3 modes are compromised as is the general ability of the system to provide chassis control.

... The ride won't be half as good as having it fully retrofitted but it will be better than the stock non dcc suspension...

This first part of this is true. The second part is almost certainly not true. The reason a DCC car, when calibrated, can run effectively (meaning at various stiffness levels) even at different ride heights is because the module can control the dampers using various inputs from the vehicle and sensors. You won't have any of that.

That being said, I won't have to ride in your car. When/if you embark on this journey I would appreciate progress being tracked in a separate thread though, as it has little to do with a DCC retrofit .

 

[xabhax]

Is that because sharing isn't permitted on here? I've got ODIS if that's what you were thinking was the hurdle?

Also, do you know if v0130 is the normal arteon DCC or the DCC R as per this link?
https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/dynamic-chassis-control-dcc-3949

"The most advanced Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) system currently available is installed on the Arteon. The system is available in two variants, the standard version with a specially balanced blend of driving comfort and dynamics, and a sports version, the DCC R. Although it also offers high levels of comfort, the balance of the sports version has been shifted slightly towards sporty performance. Both versions allow the adaptive dampers to be controlled via conventional driving profile selection (Comfort, Normal and Sport) and, for the first time, with infinitely variable settings over an extended range using a slide control in the individual setting menu (Comfort+ to Sport+)"

No its because thats how he gets people to pay money. He took the work of others, just like all of the people selling MIB2, and ACC activations. And sells it. He didnt figure it out, nor did any of the others. Thats my rant.

If you search for VAG flashdaten torrents or mega archives youll find your firmware

 

[jamstonmartames]

I guess our definitions of cool differ, haha. What you will end up with should not be considered Dynamic Chassis Control at all.

I would suspect that pairing DCC dampers with lowering springs and not being able to calibrate them (which effectively sets the "center" for the variable voltage that you want to control via a switch/button) means they are going to ride terribly.

You are going to have a similar problem, but worse, that many people have with factory DCC on lowering springs if they don't do the calibration. That is their DCC module always thinks the suspension is under compression so the dampers stay at the stiffer range of each respective mode. Consequently all 3 modes are compromised as is the general ability of the system to provide chassis control.


This first part of this is true. The second part is almost certainly not true. The reason a DCC car, when calibrated, can run effectively (meaning at various stiffness levels) even at different ride heights is because the module can control the dampers using various inputs from the vehicle and sensors. You won't have any of that.

That being said, I won't have to ride in your car. When/if you embark on this journey I would appreciate progress being tracked in a separate thread though, as it has little to do with a DCC retrofit .

Hi @Cuzoe

I hope you're well.

Can you confirm what your values in the 19 Gateway are for Byte 10, 11 & 12 ? Mainly Byte 10 Bit 7, Byte 11, Bit 0 & Byte 12 Bit 7

The theory being:

FPA Funktion AGK - disable [AusnahmeGenehmigungen] ??
FPA Funktion VAQ - enable [Vorderachs-Differenzialsperre] ?? Maybe not applicable to an R?
FPA Funktion DR - enable [Drücken Race??]

This is based on other cars with DCC on similar mk 7's with the same gateway part numbers.





Other areas to look at are:
FS ID's:

DE07873-MAS06193	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 1	Comfort
IDE07873-MAS06194	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 2	AUTO
IDE07873-MAS06195	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 3	Not Used
IDE07873-MAS06196	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 4	Not Used
IDE07873-MAS06197	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 5	ECONOMY
IDE07873-MAS06198	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 6	RACE
IDE07873-MAS06199	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 7	INDIVIDUAL
IDE07873-MAS06200	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 8	Not Used
IDE07873-MAS08875	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 9	Not Used
IDE07873-MAS08876	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 10	Not Used
IDE07873-MAS08877	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 11	Not Used
IDE07873-MAS08878	FPA enabled profiles-Profile 12	Not Used

 

[Cuzoe]

@jamstonmartames I will check when I get a chance, probably tomorrow. I recently switched to a 3Q0 gateway, although that's probably what your facelift car has. Out of curiosity, what is it you are hoping to accomplish?

IF it's activation of additional driving profiles it's not a matter of coding. It's about FEC's (for Comfort and Race) and gateway datasets.
IF you already have driving modes and your gateway is index Q or higher you could build a custom data set and replace Eco with Comfort, and change the graphic to show Race instead of Sport.
I've made a custom data set for myself here in and in the post after that one (granted I have the FEC for comfort).

If you were not in the states you could buy the Driving Profile Activation Document from VW and have it done that way. But assuming your location of North East is in the states... I'll copy/paste my post from another forum where someone inquired about adding Driving Profiles to a car that does not have them...

Spoiler: Driving Profile Retrofit Info

• Install of button... relatively straight forward, wire connections as follows:
  • Ground - used for the BCM and as ground for button lighting
  • BCM - gets momentary ground to switch modes when Mode button pressed
  • BCM - also has connection for ground out to light Mode button orange when not in "normal" mode
    • You can code this active/not active if you don't want to the button lighting up orange
  • Interior lighting (can tie into cigarette lighter surround) for the background lighting of button
• Install of FEC (function enablement code), you'll have to get this done via one of the remote retrofitters/companies
  • This is required because Driving Modes are a software feature
• Adaptation and parameterization of 5F - Infotainment (remote coder should take care of this)
• Coding of 09 - Central Electronics/BCM (remote coder should take of this also)
• Loading of driving profile dataset in 19 - Gateway (again, remote coder should take of this)
  • Comfort Mode is a separate FEC that most cars won't have
  • Race Mode is also a separate FEC that only a Golf R will have, instead of Sport

One issue with some of the not as competent/thorough retrofitters is that they half do the (free-ish part) driving profile retrofit, enabling all the menus and loading a gateway dataset but without the FEC (the part that costs money). The result is you can have the modes show when you press the button and you can even change things, but those changes are not sent to the respective module so nothing actually changes.

It's up to your retrofitter to find a dataset that is close to the configuration of your car (DSG, LP, etc). This helps you to only have features showing in the driving modes that correspond to something in your car. However, having additional things show doesn't really matter as they will have no impact. The way it works is the gateway driving mode dataset has "request" values that it sends to the module in question. If that module accepts the request (meaning the dataset is sending a valid request) the module changes mode. That could be Steering Module to sport, Engine to Eco, HVAC to Normal, etc.

 

[jamstonmartames]

@jamstonmartames I will check when I get a chance, probably tomorrow. I recently switched to a 3Q0 gateway, although that's probably what your facelift car has. Out of curiosity, what is it you are hoping to accomplish?

IF it's activation of additional driving profiles it's not a matter of coding. It's about FEC's (for Comfort and Race) and gateway datasets.
IF you already have driving modes and your gateway is index Q or higher you could build a custom data set and replace Eco with Comfort, and change the graphic to show Race instead of Sport.
I've made a custom data set for myself here in and in the post after that one (granted I have the FEC for comfort).

If you were not in the states you could buy the Driving Profile Activation Document from VW and have it done that way. But assuming your location of North East is in the states... I'll copy/paste my post from another forum where someone inquired about adding Driving Profiles to a car that does not have them...

Spoiler: Driving Profile Retrofit Info

• Install of button... relatively straight forward, wire connections as follows:
  • Ground - used for the BCM and as ground for button lighting
  • BCM - gets momentary ground to switch modes when Mode button pressed
  • BCM - also has connection for ground out to light Mode button orange when not in "normal" mode
    • You can code this active/not active if you don't want to the button lighting up orange
  • Interior lighting (can tie into cigarette lighter surround) for the background lighting of button
• Install of FEC (function enablement code), you'll have to get this done via one of the remote retrofitters/companies
  • This is required because Driving Modes are a software feature
• Adaptation and parameterization of 5F - Infotainment (remote coder should take care of this)
• Coding of 09 - Central Electronics/BCM (remote coder should take of this also)
• Loading of driving profile dataset in 19 - Gateway (again, remote coder should take of this)
  • Comfort Mode is a separate FEC that most cars won't have
  • Race Mode is also a separate FEC that only a Golf R will have, instead of Sport

One issue with some of the not as competent/thorough retrofitters is that they half do the (free-ish part) driving profile retrofit, enabling all the menus and loading a gateway dataset but without the FEC (the part that costs money). The result is you can have the modes show when you press the button and you can even change things, but those changes are not sent to the respective module so nothing actually changes.

It's up to your retrofitter to find a dataset that is close to the configuration of your car (DSG, LP, etc). This helps you to only have features showing in the driving modes that correspond to something in your car. However, having additional things show doesn't really matter as they will have no impact. The way it works is the gateway driving mode dataset has "request" values that it sends to the module in question. If that module accepts the request (meaning the dataset is sending a valid request) the module changes mode. That could be Steering Module to sport, Engine to Eco, HVAC to Normal, etc.

Thanks Cuzoe

Ah, So I have 4 profiles in a golf r. And I know doctor has mentioned a few times it's not something that can be done without a FEC. However I've heard that the only profile fec available is:
[5G0 054 809 Software upgrade Activation document for software-controlled vehicle functions] ~$150, ~£120

But this is a fec specifically for those who have 0 profiles. There are conflicts that people have reported when using this fec to get comfort mode as it can't decide what to do if you've already got 4 profiles. Do you know which fec is specifically for comfort?

2H4	CHA	Driving Profile Selection and hydraulic damper control
2H5	CHA	Driving Profile Selection and conventional shock absorber
2H6	CHA	Drive select
2H7	CHA	Drive select and magnetic shock absorbers
2I0	CHA	Adaptive chassis control with continuousoperation
2I1	CHA	Driving Profile Selection "ECO"
2H0	CHA	Without "Drive select"
2H1	CHA	"Drive select"
EF1	ECO	ECO Function

 

[Cuzoe]

Thanks Cuzoe

Ah, So I have 4 profiles in a golf r. And I know doctor has mentioned a few times it's not something that can be done without a FEC. However I've heard that the only profile fec available is:
[5G0 054 809 Software upgrade Activation document for software-controlled vehicle functions] ~$150, ~£120

But this is a fec specifically for those who have 0 profiles. There are conflicts that people have reported when using this fec to get comfort mode as it can't decide what to do if you've already got 4 profiles. Do you know which fec is specifically for comfort?

2H4	CHA	Driving Profile Selection and hydraulic damper control
2H5	CHA	Driving Profile Selection and conventional shock absorber
2H6	CHA	Drive select
2H7	CHA	Drive select and magnetic shock absorbers
2I0	CHA	Adaptive chassis control with continuousoperation
2I1	CHA	Driving Profile Selection "ECO"
2H0	CHA	Without "Drive select"
2H1	CHA	"Drive select"
EF1	ECO	ECO Function

I don't know the FEC numbers... but that table is PR codes (option codes), not FEC's. I don't know how you would get from option code to the FEC, assuming that is a possibility. My assumption is that activation document is for people without driving profiles.

Activation document ≠ FEC though. Being in the states Activation Documents aren't really a thing but my understanding is that when used the included pin entitles you to certain FEC's which are then activated for the respective system in your car. You'll be connected to the VW mothership so it will also guide the technician through downloading/loading the needed datasets and take care of any required module coding/adaptations. Somewhat related, I have the FEC for lifetime map updates on my MIB (09310099) but this is not tied to an Activation Document or option code as far as I know. The guys at VAG Retrofit & Coding purchased that FEC and activated it on my VIN.


As far as conflicts about getting comfort mode... the gateway dataset is where all the driving profile data is stored, and that can be information for 12 profiles (they can extend off the screen and you would have to scroll to see them all ). The enabled FEC's will determine what is/is not shown. My original driving profile dataset had all the information for Offroad but I don't have that FEC so it didn't show in the car. I got rid of that profile's info in my custom data set but didn't have to as it made no difference in the car.

So let's assume the Activation Document gets you Eco, Normal, Sport, Individual. This is fine if your car has no driving profiles. It obviously won't get you anything if your car already has the same driving profiles. And if your car currently has Eco, Normal, Race, Individual (your Golf R?) then you won't gain a Comfort FEC with the activation document. On top of that, the gateway dataset that would be downloaded with the Activation Document may not have anything in Race so you could lose that mode. And not because you can't have Race and Sport (in theory you could in a custom dataset if you have the Race FEC), but because in your original dataset Race replaces Sport. Where you had Race you will now have Sport, both in your selections and in the dataset.

I would be surprised (although I don't know) if many cars that did not have DCC from the factory have the FEC for Comfort mode. And it stands to reason that any cars with DCC would have driving modes already so would never use the Activation Document.

 

[davide.bonetti]

@Cuzoe

this last post of yours is interesting to me, and maybe we'll be able to answer a few questions I still have.

my car (european) came from the factory with Driving Profiles (I got Eco / Normal / Sport / Custom) and after I RETROFITTED DCC. I have been trying to add the Comfort profile without success so far.

I'll tell you a few things I did or that I know and you please tell me what you think.

- every profile is a separate FEC but FECs cannot be bought individually;

- a european car with DCC from the factory has DP like I have PLUS the Comfort, so one extra FEC;

- I bought the activation document and tried to run it, hoping it would add Comfort. it did NOT work, Odis returned a generic error without much explanation. at that time they told me it makes sense because the activation won't run if the car has DP from the factory.

I lately spoke with somebody on a russian forum who told me the activation didn't succeed because the car is heavily retrofitted; Odis expects to find all modules (or better, the modules involved n DP) as stock when reading them before doing the actual activation. so I would need to SVM some modules before the activation. this guy says that I would get Comfort after. this I have NOT tried yet, but it gives hope. I can't try this before late September.

- I have tried looking into the dataset editing but even if I am really tech savy (and an IT person as well) I am not comfy with it and I am afraid to screw up something. if possible, I would be ok for "renaming" my Eco to Comfort, as I just never use Eco. Eco is a joke, it chokes down the throttle/engine too much.

I always drive with the Custom profile and only change the DCC option as necessary, the other things like steering and engine are always in Sport.

would you know how to tweak my dataset?

 

[Cuzoe]

@Cuzoe

this last post of yours is interesting to me, and maybe we'll be able to answer a few questions I still have.

my car (european) came from the factory with Driving Profiles (I got Eco / Normal / Sport / Custom) and after I RETROFITTED DCC. I have been trying to add the Comfort profile without success so far.

I'll tell you a few things I did or that I know and you please tell me what you think.

- every profile is a separate FEC but FECs cannot be bought individually;

- a european car with DCC from the factory has DP like I have PLUS the Comfort, so one extra FEC;

That makes sense to me, comfort would be "most useful" on cars with DCC.

- I bought the activation document and tried to run it, hoping it would add Comfort. it did NOT work, Odis returned a generic error without much explanation. at that time they told me it makes sense because the activation won't run if the car has DP from the factory.

I lately spoke with somebody on a russian forum who told me the activation didn't succeed because the car is heavily retrofitted; Odis expects to find all modules (or better, the modules involved n DP) as stock when reading them before doing the actual activation. so I would need to SVM some modules before the activation. this guy says that I would get Comfort after. this I have NOT tried yet, but it gives hope. I can't try this before late September.

I don't have any knowledge about this but that makes sense to me as well. I would think ODIS wants to make sure everything is as expected prior to making changes, otherwise it could induce other problems. I am however unsure (again, I don't know) that the activation document would add Comfort. After all Comfort seems to only be on cars with DCC and there is no official DCC retrofit. So I'm not sure why the DP activation document would add Comfort.

- I have tried looking into the dataset editing but even if I am really tech savy (and an IT person as well) I am not comfy with it and I am afraid to screw up something. if possible, I would be ok for "renaming" my Eco to Comfort, as I just never use Eco. Eco is a joke, it chokes down the throttle/engine too much.

I always drive with the Custom profile and only change the DCC option as necessary, the other things like steering and engine are always in Sport.

would you know how to tweak my dataset?

Assuming you have right gateway and version, as mentioned here I can edit a dataset for you. I have a newborn, so it won't be quick, haha. There is no way to pull your dataset from your car directly, but if you can get your dataset, as mentioned here I could probably help you out.

One good thing about this editing is that you are ONLY flashing the driving profile part of the gateway data set so you the only thing you could screw up is your profiles. That means you can always flash back to your original set. I flashed several sets before getting mine just how I wanted it. Lots of those flashes had things messed up .

 

[jamstonmartames]

This is all part of the fun right?

Something crucial I hadn't distinguished is that comfort mode won't be available via FeC, only via SWAP.

Did any of you buy the strut dome cover reinforcements by the way? 5Q0809131B ?

 

[Cuzoe]

I did not, but I have a strut brace now so couldn't use both. Either my car never had them to begin with or shop that did my first suspension install tossed them .

 

[doctor]

Editing datasets is just a waste of time if you don't have a valid fec/swap code. Once you have a valid swap/fec code you can edit the dataset for it. Because in some exceptional cases, some valid swap codes are not visible.

Also, as mentioned, a single swap code cannot be purchased but can be activated easily once you have valid entitlements. In other words, if there is no comfort mode, comfort can be activated, if there is no race mode, race can be activated.

Finally, the pr codes quoted above do not only include your swap codes, but also the pr code on their shock absorbers. So when you have 2H5 pr code and you have comfort mode, you can upgrade to dcc. Many cars that are already dcc are produced from the factory with the code 2H7, as they have a driving profile.

When you first install dcc and then activate the driving profiles with the activation document, your shock absorbers will not come out of the factory, so you put pr again, it becomes 2H5.

I hope it was useful and understandable.

 

[Cuzoe]

@doctor is wrong, editing datasets IS fun!

 

[jamstonmartames]

@doctor is wrong, editing datasets IS fun!

Three cheers for the coding brigade!

The GitHub repo or more specifically the bit terrain file (.BT) just needs a slight tweak for the L variant of the gateway as oppose to the Q variant. Nothing a bit of hex translation won't fix.

I think because L may lack things Q has, it's shifted a few bits to the right.

In a nutshell what I think scared people about this approach was the lack of terminology explained. 6 steps to success or fun or as others have shamed it to be "not fun"

1. Take your own gateway dataset.xml via ODIS. [Online only]
2. Load it into a hex editor.
3. Overlay the dacool/jilleb's binary terrain map by importing the bt. file
4. Then hit output view console
5. You can see what's residing in your gateway.
6. Alternatively, use some other sample gateway sets out there to play with.