Longer wearing tires for track

[jay745]

so far 1/16th out front and 1/16th in rear has been pretty neutral. I'll try 0 next time I mess with alignment and see.

I've done around 30 days in the last 7 years on track, but this is the first FWD car, so the learning experience here is...interesting. I do agree the chattier tires are better for learning a car, but unfortunately it seems the only 200TW tires available today don't really have the longevity that the old 200TW tires did, and that's why I'm looking at more focused options, like the NT01. I'm going to burn up the Z3 until they're completely done (no more street driving for them) and then I'm just looking for best bang for buck to keep learning the platform until I start doing time trials. I just need the Z3 to last the rest of this year, and then something to last the full season next year that won't also turn into a grease puddle by lap 6.

It sounds like you are looking for exactly what I am for a tire. I can't speak highly enough of the rs4's. I run 30 minute sessions and don't really feel they get greasy. They do need to be brought up to temp before they are worth anything though. Check them out perhaps.

 

[victorofhavoc]

It sounds like you are looking for exactly what I am for a tire. I can't speak highly enough of the rs4's. I run 30 minute sessions and don't really feel they get greasy. They do need to be brought up to temp before they are worth anything though. Check them out perhaps.

I know the RS3 were a solid performer, and so were the Z2ss (I drove on the Z2 and Zss before and enjoyed them). The Z3 just wear so fast, but they're up to temp in a half lap or so, and for the first 4 laps I hung onto a couple C7 Z06 and a fast 5.0 mustang, until I heatsoaked and the tires started to get hot so I had to back off. How many sessions do you have on the RS4 so far? Are they wearing the same as the RS3 did?

 

[jmason]

My HPDE experience is mostly with the local PCA chapter. That means I am in run groups (intermediate level at this point) with mostly Porsches, with a sprinkling of M3's, Corvettes, and others rounding out the group. So I'm running with a pretty fast group of cars. I don't have the horsepower, braking capability, or balance that these cars possess.

For me, my best path forward to keeping up, aside from learning to drive better, is tires. (I don't believe that a tuned car would survive long. There's a reason the Golf R has auxiliary radiators and likely other changes to enhance durability.) Moving from MPSS to the RE-71R really helped reduce my lap times. But at 5-6 days of life, it's just too expensive to continue with these. So, like victorofhavoc, I'm looking for a tire with a more reasonable lifespan, at a reasonable cost, with the best dry weather traction I can get. I don't use the track tires on the road. Maybe r-comps are the answer, but I'm not convinced. Seems like too many downsides (limited temp cycles, proper break-in requirement, cost?, perhaps requiring higher driver skill then I possess).

Maybe the Hankook RS4 is something I should consider. Any other thoughts/suggestions?

 

[victorofhavoc]

Ok, your original post said 2 days and I figured that was the count. My mistake. I've got 54 days over 6 seasons so far, 37 of them in the R, with another 6 coming in the next few months.

I bought the last set of ZII Star Specs that TireRack had and mounted them in May. Once they wear out then I will switch to ZIII's.

I like the NT01s, especially since I got my set of 235/40R18s for $675 including heat cycling. Unfortunately Discount Tire has not repeated that offer. They do put them on sale a couple of times a year for $200/tire without heat cycling and I'll buy a fresh set at that price when the time comes. They are grippier than the Dunlops. Forum comments suggest that people see 40 heat cycles from them. I'm at 28 now, and the tires still have a bit of tread left. From what I understand, they get better once the tread is gone.

FWIW I had my Z3 heat cycled by tirerack. I recently looked back at some of the reviews and others have had the same kind of accelerated wear I've had with them. I haven't run the Z2ss, but these do not wear even close to how the Zss and Z2 wore. Not sure if I got a bad batch or something, but they don't event sell them in my size anymore (245/40/17).

I've seen your comments on other threads, and see your experience/knowledge level, so that's why I take your feedback ss very valuable input. And no worries man. I've noticed a lot of guys around this forum are more looks and numbers focused, rather than driving focused, so I completely understand the assumption. I spend more time reading through GRM than anywhere else honestly, but for car specific stuff I come here

 

[jay745]

I know the RS3 were a solid performer, and so were the Z2ss (I drove on the Z2 and Zss before and enjoyed them). The Z3 just wear so fast, but they're up to temp in a half lap or so, and for the first 4 laps I hung onto a couple C7 Z06 and a fast 5.0 mustang, until I heatsoaked and the tires started to get hot so I had to back off. How many sessions do you have on the RS4 so far? Are they wearing the same as the RS3 did?

Seems to be wearing the same as rs3, I believe they are the same compound and the difference was in the tread pattern.

 

[odessa.filez]

Maybe the Hankook RS4 is something I should consider. Any other thoughts/suggestions?

my re71r are nearly done, thinking about Federal RS RR. Cheaper and supposedly run wider relative to stated size. Those I know who run them for AX like them, but idk for track.

 

[zrickety]

FWIW, I ran Yokohama Advan sports (UHP all season) at VIR for 2 days and they held up really well. I was keeping pace with Corvettes and Mustangs. I've continued to drive hard in the streets for almost 2 years and they have hardly worn at all.

 

[donefor]

R888 or R888R won't solve your problem - with the increased grip, you'll be pulling more g's - accelerating, braking, and turning. Then you'll need better brakes, and then you'll be waiting till the last millisecond to use them, and... well, let's just say that in practice, more grip does not make for more tire life.


For better tire life on the track, 1) run with camber sufficient to yield even wear across the tread; 2) rotate front-to-back after every run; 3) rotate right to left as the course dictates; 4) reduce mass; 5) reduce acceleration. Of these options, (4) is fairly difficult, and (5) ain't worth a shit.


A rough track surface can really make you go through the expendables, too... i went through a set of tires and brakes at Summit Main in about 6 hours.

 

[joneze93tsi]

my re71r are nearly done, thinking about Federal RS RR. Cheaper and supposedly run wider relative to stated size. Those I know who run them for AX like them, but idk for track.

Fair warning:

The RR's perform admirably, especially considering their relativity low cost. One of the stiffest sidewalls I've seen outside of R comps.

HOWEVER, from 10mph up it sounds like a Cessna is under your car. Nobody cares for AutoX/Racing, but if you daily with family ect, beware. No amount of radio can drown these out!

 

[Mini7]

I run NT01’s on my Coopers S. I need to check my logs but I’m at 50% treadlife after 9-days on VIR’s full course. Great value for the money. Consistent performance so far. I am told these do not heat cycle out. I reckon these are the all round best value. Performance/Longevity/Value. I believe there are better performing R-Comps out there. But if what my track buddies say is true, that they are consistent all the way down to the cords, then NT01’s are a good option.

I run MPS4S on my 17 GTI sport. I have 6-days at VIR on them plus 15,000 road miles. Fronts are a little under 50%. The rears are at 50%. I was looking for a great wet weather tire that was also capable in the dry. The 4S delivers on both counts. Suitable for a stock dual purpose car. I run with PCA in White solo. The GTi gets pushed pretty hard. The Michelin’s are wailing in most corners. I’m getting 1.1g lateral in the corners. With a track alignment on camber plates I’d expect to get 1.2g. Not sure I would get much more than that out of the tires.

https://youtu.be/PBPnJJ1izmA

 

[donefor]

I run NT01’s on my Coopers S. I need to check my logs but I’m at 50% treadlife after 9-days on VIR’s full course. Great value for the money. Consistent performance so far. I am told these do not heat cycle out. I reckon these are the all round best value. Performance/Longevity/Value. I believe there are better performing R-Comps out there. But if what my track buddies say is true, that they are consistent all the way down to the cords, then NT01’s are a good option.

I run MPS4S on my 17 GTI sport. I have 6-days at VIR on them plus 15,000 road miles. Fronts are a little under 50%. The rears are at 50%. I was looking for a great wet weather tire that was also capable in the dry. The 4S delivers on both counts. Suitable for a stock dual purpose car. I run with PCA in White solo. The GTi gets pushed pretty hard. The Michelin’s are wailing in most corners. I’m getting 1.1g lateral in the corners. With a track alignment on camber plates I’d expect to get 1.2g. Not sure I would get much more than that out of the tires.

https://youtu.be/PBPnJJ1izmA

I've heard the same about NT-01s, consistent to the cords. Where do you get them?


Also, do you warm up the Michelins for a few laps? I met a guy with a Mk7 at Summit Point who was having some shoulder chunking issues, he was going full blast from the get-go. Probably not a fair comparison though, as VIR is smooth as a baby's bottom and SP is more like a cheese grater.

 

[Mini7]

I normally go fairly hard on the warmup lap and depending on traffic the first half of the session is where I pickup my fastest times. PP brakes are past there best by the end of the session. Haven't run with my new RS3 deflectors yet. That should help keep brake performance consistent. Street tires do have a tendency chunk a little on the outside shoulder. Especially on stock camber. VIR does have a smooth surface that is relatively easy on the tires.

I go to discount tire or use their eBay store for the NT01’s. I believe the run a special on Presidents Day.

 

[donefor]

Thanks for the info, Mini7. Wonder if i've seen you at VIR before, i've been driving a black 2-door Mk6 Autobahn there since '12, with Tarheel BMWCCA and Trackdaze. Sadly, that car was destroyed in an accident a month ago


I also go pretty hard from the beginning - though in the first session the warm-up lap is usually under yellow so i do a lot of accelerating and hard braking to get heat into the tires and brakes. And i also try to get to the front of the grid in those morning sessions, since i'm typically warmed up before the power cars, haha... that way get in the clean laps early, before tires get greasy and driver begins overthinking. Always seem to get my best laps on the first day, in the second session.

I'll have to try the NT-01s, been on R888 or R888R since 2014 and could stand to try something different.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Thanks for the info, Mini7. Wonder if i've seen you at VIR before, i've been driving a black 2-door Mk6 Autobahn there since '12, with Tarheel BMWCCA and Trackdaze. Sadly, that car was destroyed in an accident a month ago


I also go pretty hard from the beginning - though in the first session the warm-up lap is usually under yellow so i do a lot of accelerating and hard braking to get heat into the tires and brakes. And i also try to get to the front of the grid in those morning sessions, since i'm typically warmed up before the power cars, haha... that way get in the clean laps early, before tires get greasy and driver begins overthinking. Always seem to get my best laps on the first day, in the second session.

I'll have to try the NT-01s, been on R888 or R888R since 2014 and could stand to try something different.

Yeah, I'm probably going to go to the NT01 after my current Z3 wear out. Still looking out for the RS4 life, but NT01 are looking more and more promising.

 

[Mini7]

Thanks for the info, Mini7. Wonder if i've seen you at VIR before, i've been driving a black 2-door Mk6 Autobahn there since '12, with Tarheel BMWCCA and Trackdaze. Sadly, that car was destroyed in an accident a month ago


I also go pretty hard from the beginning - though in the first session the warm-up lap is usually under yellow so i do a lot of accelerating and hard braking to get heat into the tires and brakes. And i also try to get to the front of the grid in those morning sessions, since i'm typically warmed up before the power cars, haha... that way get in the clean laps early, before tires get greasy and driver begins overthinking. Always seem to get my best laps on the first day, in the second session.

I'll have to try the NT-01s, been on R888 or R888R since 2014 and could stand to try something different.

Hey it’s quite possible. I ran my white GTi in B-run group with Tarheel in September last year. I remember a dark colored Mk 6 in my run group. Was that you? I ran the stock Bridgestones and really struggled for grip while learning the car. I picked 5-secs going from the all seasons to the MPS4S.

I haven’t run R888’s. NT01’s are predictable.