What causes thrust bearing failure?

[MSchott]

Yes of course. Pay to play.

My car is out - of - warranty due to heavily modified drive-train.

But, My best friend whom is a Volkswagen technician, has seen complete engine replacements on completely OEM vehicles. Consider yourself a lucky one.

Here is a link to the recall from Volkwagen's MK7's included for Camshaft Failures.

Time to climb the Internet mound.

https://www.goapr.com/tsp/3f4b0448-abe5-496d-9c9f-17108ccf2271.pdf

I'm sure failures of some sort happen on stock vehicles. The % is tiny. I don't consider myself lucky, I consider my experience normal. The camshaft issue was 4 years ago and the parts have been redesigned and is no longer an issue.

My issue is conflating a few failures out of proportion to reality.

 

[sean.mason.75873]

I'm sure failures of some sort happen on stock vehicles. The % is tiny. I don't consider myself lucky, I consider my experience normal. The camshaft issue was 4 years ago and the parts have been redesigned and is no longer an issue.



My issue is conflating a few failures out of proportion to reality.

The real issue is that manufacturers don't share that kind of data.

Porsche spent years downplaying IMS bearing failure and many on the Porsche forums sound like you, when in reality, a sealed bearing inside an engine with rubber seals IS going to fall in 70k to 120k miles. Period. And take the entire engine with it.

I'm not saying the thrust bearing issue is the equivalent, but we don't know the true extent of the problem because only VW really knows and they'll never share that information.

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[MSchott]

The real issue is that manufacturers don't share that kind of data.

Porsche spent years downplaying IMS bearing failure and many on the Porsche forums sound like you, when in reality, a sealed bearing inside an engine with rubber seals IS going to fall in 70k to 120k miles. Period. And take the entire engine with it.

I'm not saying the thrust bearing issue is the equivalent, but we don't know the true extent of the problem because only VW really knows and they'll never share that information.

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Surely you can understand why they don’t release this information. No car company will. There is a public remedy if issues are common enough. Ask BMW about timing chain guide issues in their N20 engines.

 

[russiankid]

If you're lucky, it'll only strip the gear on your starter or burn it out if you try to start it in gear. I have a hard time believing it could turn the engine over with a gear engaged; that'd be a lot of oomph for a starter motor. I could see it chipping the teeth on your flywheel though.

You can get the car moving with just the starter no problem, I've done it handful of times before. That is where the issue is, people would leave it in gear and then have a car in their living room.

 

[Calle]

I've been engaging in a conversation about this on a Swedish forum, this is apparently a problem with all the newer 2.0 TFSI engines since they don't have full face axial bearings in the crank like the 1.8T engines have. Which means that a beefier pressure plate increases the risk of the crank seizing.

Modded journal holders(?) to make room an additional bearing:
Bottom - 1.8T original
Middle - 2.0 TFSI original
Top - 2.0 TFSI modded for an extra axial bearing from a 1.8T

Source: https://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114952&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=21

 

[sean.mason.75873]

Surely you can understand why they don’t release this information. No car company will. There is a public remedy if issues are common enough. Ask BMW about timing chain guide issues in their N20 engines.

I understand why they don't, but I wish they were required to do so. It would prevent Ford from knowing selling transmissions for several years that engineers raised red flags about before the first car left the factory. It would put Porsche on blast for exactly how bad the IMS issue is. It would have forced Subaru to fix the 08 STI piston issue sooner. Etc....

In all these cases, the manufacturers purposely minimized the issue and did their best to push the problem off on the owners.

Mazda's ND transmission issues were a rare exception to the typical model. They replaced transmissions no questions asked and aggressively revised the transmission until they got it right. 4 revisions in 2 years and replaced some transmissions 3 or 4 times. It didn't take the the government forcing them to fix the issue.



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[dietcokefiend]

I've been engaging in a conversation about this on a Swedish forum, this is apparently a problem with all the newer 2.0 TFSI engines since they don't have full face axial bearings in the crank like the 1.8T engines have. Which means that a beefier pressure plate increases the risk of the crank seizing.

Modded journal holders(?) to make room an additional bearing:
Bottom - 1.8T original
Middle - 2.0 TFSI original
Top - 2.0 TFSI modded for an extra axial bearing from a 1.8T

Source: https://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114952&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=21

Kind of makes sense to focus on smaller axial bearings when the bulk of your sold cars are running automatic transmissions.


EDIT: Also didn't the 1.8T get designed and built around a traditional oil spec before moving to the VW 502 oil? Might have had to be beefed up (and older engine designs across the board) for crappier oil options.

 

[Raguvian]

I've been engaging in a conversation about this on a Swedish forum, this is apparently a problem with all the newer 2.0 TFSI engines since they don't have full face axial bearings in the crank like the 1.8T engines have. Which means that a beefier pressure plate increases the risk of the crank seizing.

Modded journal holders(?) to make room an additional bearing:
Bottom - 1.8T original
Middle - 2.0 TFSI original
Top - 2.0 TFSI modded for an extra axial bearing from a 1.8T

Source: https://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114952&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=21

Thanks for the information!

I feel a lot better about my 1.8T now.

 

[dietcokefiend]

Thanks for the information!

I feel a lot better about my 1.8T now.

Pretty sure this is the MK4 1.8T engine, not the 1.8T VW used in the Golf MK7, Passat, etc.

 

[Calle]

Pretty sure this is the MK4 1.8T engine, not the 1.8T VW used in the Golf MK7, Passat, etc.

Correct.

From what I understand all the newer EA-series engine does not have the full face axial bearings which means that the newer 1.8T are also affected by this.

 

[Raguvian]

Pretty sure this is the MK4 1.8T engine, not the 1.8T VW used in the Golf MK7, Passat, etc.

Correct.

From what I understand all the newer EA-series engine does not have the full face axial bearings which means that the newer 1.8T are also affected by this.

Well that was a short lived moment of relief.

 

[sean.mason.75873]

From the looks of the parts, it's a cost cutting measure.

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[Parabola]

I don't think that second photo is quite right, there has to be machined recessed surface like in photo 1 and 3 where the thrust washer is located.

Item 9 in the diagram is the infamous thrust washer.

Also axial play of the crank is limited to 0.07 to 0.30 mm.

 

[NH_MKVII]

Item 9 in the diagram is the infamous thrust washer.

Also axial play of the crank is limited to 0.07 to 0.30 mm.

Great find. Do you also know the part number for the thrust washer?

 

[777-300ER]

I don't think that second photo is quite right, there has to be machined recessed surface like in photo 1 and 3 where the thrust washer is located.

Item 9 in the diagram is the infamous thrust washer.

Also axial play of the crank is limited to 0.07 to 0.30 mm.

The half thrust washer is located on the block not on the cap. That guy machined the recess in his center cap and added another thrust bearing to fix the issue.