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Tires cupping

tmw2442

Go Kart Newbie
Location
SC
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Can anyone tell me if these numbers are good? (at least, if it would be the cause of the cupping?)
While closer to zero is almost always be better for wear...with the minimal camber you are running, the cupping or feathering should be minimal. The cheaper the tires the more pronounced the cupping/feathering seems to be. Your before measurements were almost zero...what prompted you to change?
 

emichel6888

Ready to race!
Location
TX
Can anyone tell me if these numbers are good? (at least, if it would be the cause of the cupping?)
I have to agree, those alignment values were not bad at all, .02 degrees toe out is nothing. I purposely run a lot more than that (front and back about almost .3 total, and I run 2-2.5 degrees negative camber) because I like how it makes the car handle. I currently have 15,000 miles on the tires and no cupping and the tire wear is perfectly fine. I have found you can do up to 1/16 toe in or out per corner, and tire wear is not greatly affected. Although if you do much more than that tire wear will increase exponentially, (ask me how I know) :).
I think the only reason they spec that much of toe in is for safer handling. Toe in = safe but boring, toe out helps make the car a little loose, but fun.
I check and set my own alignment and monitor my tire wear pretty close. I have a post about it here: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...sion-alignment-and-what-I-have-learned-so-far
So it doesn't seem likely to me that your alignment is the issue.
 

AWDWAGON

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Barrie
I have to agree, those alignment values were not bad at all, .02 degrees toe out is nothing.
So it doesn't seem likely to me that your alignment is the issue.
While closer to zero is almost always be better for wear...with the minimal camber you are running, the cupping or feathering should be minimal. The cheaper the tires the more pronounced the cupping/feathering seems to be. Your before measurements were almost zero...what prompted you to change?
Just wanted the car back within factory spec, and my tires to stop cupping primarily... I don't track, car is just a daily family hauler.

I'm confused now. Isn't red bad, green good? The Before Measurement print-out shows alignment out of spec correct?
I haven't bought tires yet, but I'm concerned again, that tires will cup again....


4 wheel alignment
by AWDWAGON, on Flickr
 
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tmw2442

Go Kart Newbie
Location
SC
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Just wanted the car back within factory spec, and my tires to stop cupping primarily... I don't track, car is just a daily family hauler.

I'm confused now. Isn't red bad, green good? The Before Measurement print-out shows alignment out of spec correct?
I haven't bought tires yet, but I'm concerned again, that tires will cup again....


4 wheel alignment
by AWDWAGON, on Flickr
Green means factory specifications....which is good for lawyers and safety....not what is best for tire wear....

As I have stated previously....high camber settings combined with toe (primarily in the rear of the car)

This is an exagerated drawing of what the rear thread blocks of your rear tires are doing going down the road.... The circular forward motion of the inner most thead blocks...cause by toe in and camber in the rear of the car...causes the wear you are experiencing...

Don't believe anything I am trying to tell you through 3-4 posts....get a thermometer gun and take your tire temps after a drive....the rear innermost thread block in the rear will be hotter than the center or outside thread blocks...

MORE heat...more wear on that section of tire.

Unless you really have a glaring pull or vibration....you should only be getting an alignment for your vehicle on fresh tires....whatever what just "set" by the hairless apes at the shop is going to change once fresh tires are on...
 

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emichel6888

Ready to race!
Location
TX
Just wanted the car back within factory spec, and my tires to stop cupping primarily... I don't track, car is just a daily family hauler.

I'm confused now. Isn't red bad, green good? The Before Measurement print-out shows alignment out of spec correct?
I haven't bought tires yet, but I'm concerned again, that tires will cup again....
4 wheel alignment by AWDWAGON, on Flickr
We never said your alignment was bad, in fact just the opposite. Yes some values were slightly out, and red means bad (out of spec) and green means good (in spec), so your alignment is good now. However, it wasn't that bad to begin with. The problem with red and green is that it does not distinguish between barely out of spec and way out of spec.
We were just trying to show that for track driving we purposely adjust to values much further out than what you had, and yes it can cause some added wear, but not cupping.
As I recall your original question was do we think your alignment being out as it was, would that cause cupping? We answered, No I don't think so. And then rambled on to create confusion.:)
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Occasionally it's just the particular set of tires that cup even with a perfect alignment. I've had it happen and Discount Tires replaced them with a new set of the exact same tire and they wore fine.
 

AWDWAGON

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Barrie
Occasionally it's just the particular set of tires that cup even with a perfect alignment. I've had it happen and Discount Tires replaced them with a new set of the exact same tire and they wore fine.
This makes sense, since my winter set of Continental WinterContact Si did not cup at all, and look perfectly fine, as opposed to the OEM Bridgestone all-seasons the car came with.

As I recall your original question was do we think your alignment being out as it was, would that cause cupping? We answered, No I don't think so. And then rambled on to create confusion.:)
Thanks for the reply. I may have added to the confusion myself. Maybe I have a bad set of oem tires, replacing them may (i hope) fix the cupping/feathering issues.
 
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