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Tires cupping

tmw2442

Go Kart Champion
Location
SC
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Cupping from a bad shock would occur over a greater section of the tire tread. The Inner shoulder wear the thread starter is seeing is primary caused by VWs stock alignment settings (toe in combined with high camber, constantly scrubs the inner shoulder rolling down the road). VW sets up the alignment on these cars to error on the side of being super stable at highway speeds for the lowest common denominator of driver. I've seen it many times after owning a 2 X mk5 gti s, a mk6 gti, currently a mk7r and an alltrack (to a lesser degree on the alltrack due to the less camber the alltrack runs in the rear). What you are seeing on the inner thread block I believe is actually called feathering.
 

koalb

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Minnesota
Car(s)
2016 SE, PP, LP
Maybe I'm way off base, but 42 seems like pretty over-inflated to me.

Doesn't the door sticker say 36? 38? (I'm not looking at it right now) and that's the cold temp reading.

Getting the pressure right is the first thing I'd sort out.
 

Royalion

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
SoCal
My experience: I have 3 different brands of vehicles with IRS. If The tires are not properly inflated And rotated regularly they “feather” on the inboard shoulder.
 

JC_451

Autocross Champion
Location
NJ
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
If all 4 are feathered then it would stand to reason that it isn't being caused by a lack of rotation.

I guess alignment. :D
 
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emichel6888

Go Kart Champion
Location
TX
Perhaps this is just my lack of tire expertise, but I am not entirely sure I can see what the OP is even talking about from these two pictures. The tire is so symmetrical I can't even tell which side is the inside and out. I have seen cupped tires before, and usually there are multiple spots and they are very easy to spot, but looking at this one, overall looks fairly even to my eye. Is it just the angle, or am I missing something obvious here? Because if there are flat spots or just slightly worn intermittent spots, how can anyone determine that from a picture looking dead on to the tire face unless it is really severe? Is it that one random scuff mark? Is the tire significantly worn there or in other erratic spots? If so how much are we talking about?
Is the tire worn more on the left side? I can't honestly tell for sure from this pick. Is it just a scuff mark or two, or are there real worn spots that I just don't see? And if it is those scuff marks, how do you know that is actual cupping and not just something the OP ran over or... What am I missing here?
If it is just scuffing in a couple of particular spots would that indicate more likely a wheel/tire issue? Something that might show up in a road force balance test?

2020-06-28 19_12_45-(1) Tires cupping _ GOLFMK8 - VW GTI MK8 Forum _ VW Golf R Forum _ VW Golf...jpg
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Perhaps this is just my lack of tire expertise, but I am not entirely sure I can see what the OP is even talking about from these two pictures. The tire is so symmetrical I can't even tell which side is the inside and out. I have seen cupped tires before, and usually there are multiple spots and they are very easy to spot, but looking at this one, overall looks fairly even to my eye. Is it just the angle, or am I missing something obvious here? Because if there are flat spots or just slightly worn intermittent spots, how can anyone determine that from a picture looking dead on to the tire face unless it is really severe? Is it that one random scuff mark? Is the tire significantly worn there or in other erratic spots? If so how much are we talking about?
Is the tire worn more on the left side? I can't honestly tell for sure from this pick. Is it just a scuff mark or two, or are there real worn spots that I just don't see? And if it is those scuff marks, how do you know that is actual cupping and not just something the OP ran over or... What am I missing here?
If it is just scuffing in a couple of particular spots would that indicate more likely a wheel/tire issue? Something that might show up in a road force balance test?

View attachment 178066

I don't see any cupping on that tire either. With cupping every other tread block will wear a high low pattern. And it's often not indicative of anything wrong with the car. I had a set that cupped and it was simply the tires. I had had the same tire previously so Discount Tire replaced them and the replacement tires didn't cup proving it was just a bad set of tires.
 

emichel6888

Go Kart Champion
Location
TX
Right, usually there is a pattern of some sort, that is why I asked. The OP claims he has cupping and then posts pics of what to my eye looks to be a perfectly good evenly worn tire with one smudge mark, that could have been caused by someone touching it with greasy hands as far as I can tell. That is why I had to ask what in these pics confirms cupping to all the tire experts on here? Because I don't see it, and perhaps I can learn something. Or maybe they don't see it either and are just assuming the OP has additional evidence that did not show up in the pics he posted?
 

AWDWAGON

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Barrie
This is what is on my car, and why I used to inflate to 42 PSI. I now inflate to 36/37 PSI


CTP - 42PSI
by AWDWAGON, on Flickr

The right side is the inside of the tire, where the arrow is pointing. I realize it's hard to tell, maybe due to the angle the picture was taken at, but it's definitely not wearing evenly around the circumference of the tire. When I slide my hand over the inside of the tire, I can feel the bumps.

Here is another angle, but this is last summer's picture, I will try to take a new one shortly.


Untitled
by AWDWAGON, on Flickr





This is a picture of a tire I had on my last car, Mk6 Golf wagon, with more pronounced cupping:


Untitled
by AWDWAGON, on Flickr

This is what the tire will look like eventually.
 

emichel6888

Go Kart Champion
Location
TX
This is what is on my car, and why I used to inflate to 42 PSI. I now inflate to 36/37 PSI

The right side is the inside of the tire, where the arrow is pointing. I realize it's hard to tell, maybe due to the angle the picture was taken at, but it's definitely not wearing evenly around the circumference of the tire. When I slide my hand over the inside of the tire, I can feel the bumps.

Here is another angle, but this is last summer's picture, I will try to take a new one shortly.

This is a picture of a tire I had on my last car, Mk6 Golf wagon, with more pronounced cupping:

This is what the tire will look like eventually.

I was not disputing your claim of cupping, just that I could not really see it in your pics. Folks were commenting as if they could see something and I was just curious what they were seeing that I could not. So your last car also had tire cupping issues? What caused that?
Have you had a road force balance test done?

Is the wear a consistent pattern? Does it go across the entire width of the tire or more on the inside or out?

Again, I am not an expert here, just curious and trying to perhaps learn something.
 

AWDWAGON

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Barrie
Thinking that the best course of action is to have an alignment done first at VW dealer, then new tires. Got quoted CAD$140 and 1.5 hours labour.

Question 1:
I'm running H&R spacers, 12mm front and 15mm rear. Should the spacer be removed before an alignment?

Question 2:
I was quoted CAD$120 to have the new tires balanced with an Hunter Road Force machine and stick on weights. Reasonable?

Back on topic:

Never had these tires balanced yet - they are the set that came with the car new. I realize now that these tires are shot now.
I'm just trying to understand what's going on.
Here is a closer pictures of the tire (note that these pictures were taken last summer, one year ago - tires are a bit worst now):
Full size picture on Flickr


cupping_top_1
by AWDWAGON, on Flickr


cupping_middle1
by AWD WAGON, on Flickr
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Don't remove the spacers. The first picture where you circled "cupping" is it really wearing a high low pattern on every other tread block or is it wearing evenly but just bad wear? I don't really see cupping in the second picture.
 

AWDWAGON

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Barrie
There is a High/Low pattern on the edge of the inside tire (the first set of blocks). Running the palm of my hand, I can feel the bumps (and see, as well as hear the tump, tump, tump noise while driving)
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Do you get the cupping without the spacers? Spacers have been known to introduce vibration.

Alignment would be an issue if there was solid wear around one area that you're not getting elsewhere. Camber changes where you wear, toe changes how much. For example too much neg camber and toe out and you'll wear the inside of your tires very quickly.

What you're seeing is uneven wear and uneven wear is a result of one area being worn heavily and another not from inconsistent pressure on the tire. The only way to get that in a repetitive pattern is from uneven movement in a particular direction. It's a symptom of blown shocks, off balance (usually larger and fewer spots), faulty brake caliper (you'd notice other symptoms), worn bushings, and several other things. You have spacers installed, maybe try without them first after you get a balance on your new tires. You can probably have them check the alignment without spending on actually doing it.
 

AWDWAGON

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Barrie
Do you get the cupping without the spacers? Spacers have been known to introduce vibration.

You have spacers installed, maybe try without them first after you get a balance on your new tires.

- I run the same spacers with the winter wheels/tires (different wheels), and there are no issues with that set. No unusual wear or cupping.
- I removed the spacers last summer, and it didn't make a difference, it still cupped the tires.

Seems to me that either the wheels are not balanced correctly, bad OEM tires, or there may be an alignment issue (unlikely since the winter tires are ok).
At this point, the tires are shot anyways, i just can't put up with the noise anymore, so I'm tire shopping, and will be scheduling an alignment soon.
 

AWDWAGON

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Barrie
Had an alignment done, looks like all 4 wheels were off. I hope it sort out the cupping issues going forward, as I would hate to have a new set of tires start cupping again.
One thing I noticed right away, was less noise (humming) from the tires now. It still there, but much less. No scrubbing anymore?
Shopping for new tires now.

Here are the results:


4 wheel alignment
by AWDWAGON, on Flickr
 
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