GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Yeah, I definitely need to cut my bump stops, I have no idea why I didn't do it when I did the install. I'll do it when I install the Konis.
 

bfury5

Go Kart Newbie
Location
CT
Also, I'm considering more front camber from a revised Ground Control top mount.

https://hinzmotorsport.com/products/ground-control-camber-plates?variant=31599346581527

Buuuut, my tire temps from this weekend don't support more camber.

At the test and tune, and at the points event, whichever front tire did the most work, i.e. the preponderance of the turns in one direction, the center of that tire was consistently the hottest.

I was running 34 PSI front, and based on shoulder wear, I didn't want to go any lower.

Also, the tire gauge I use, reads 1.5-3 psi lower than the gauge mounted in-line with my air tank.

So, here is another possibility.

Not enough front camber and fears of roll over damage to the outside edge of the tire, caused me to over pressurize (because of a pressure calibration issue) the front tires causing higher center temps resulting in less front grip.
This is with RE71R's, correct? I know those have a much stiffer sidewall than the A052's I'm running. I need to get my hands on a pyrometer to check my tire temps to confirm my camber settings as well
 

JackRabbitSLIM

New member
Location
OHIO
Car(s)
MK7 GTI
1. I'm unlikely to raise the car above the OEM ride height, which is what adding 3/4 of an inch in ride height would do, and I'm at the Ohlin recommended ride height. Additionally, I can't raise the ride height without affecting spring pre-load, so that effect needs to be considered.

1.5 Unable to measure shock travel with the inverted nature of the shock, and the tight space in the wheel well to access the shock body, and the dust boot is in the way.
I measured my car up tonight to get an idea for where things sit. My car was close to the heights you posted pages ago, ~25.5" from the ground to fender, a little lower than yours (I'm on a 245/40R18 PS4S). My front dampers (ST XTA) have about 2.3" of travel in the front before hitting the bumpstops. One note here is that ST's are a twin tube damper and Ohlins are monotube. Monotube dampers have less travel than a twin tube in a given body length. That said, the body lengths are probably different. Please consider measuring, because you really need to know the answer to if you have enough or not. You'll have to install the damper without the spring to measure...

Pre-load only affects the rebound stroke and you have an adjustment for that. You'll benefit more from being off the bumpstop, if indeed you are hitting. I could be wrong.

3. Can you explain what you mean by "tight" at corner entry?
Tight means understeer, the opposite of loose.

I don't dissagre with the front's not being happy (enough) but two things have made it better. The bar change, and new tires gave more front grip, and less overdriving into the corner is helping. But your analysis is true. Not much to try for rear rotation except to raise the rear spring rate, revalve the rear shocks for more rebound, lower the front spring rate, and/or toe zero or out.

I have 500 in/lb springs on-hand and I have free alignments for life, so those are the most likely COAs for now.
If it were my car, I'd probably raise the car .5" all around, reset the toe to .125" out in the front and .25" out in the rear and give it hell. Lincoln airport has made every car I've ever driven on it much looser, so it's very surprising that your car is tight.

Also, I'm considering more front camber from a revised Ground Control top mount.

https://hinzmotorsport.com/products/ground-control-camber-plates?variant=31599346581527

Buuuut, my tire temps from this weekend don't support more camber.
All efforts should be made to get more camber in the front of the car. You want all that is available to you. I wouldn't worry about "too much camber" until I passed -4.5. If the top mount top hats give you more more camber and more damper travel...even better. The measure of the right amount of camber comes from the timer, not a pyrometer.
 

Mini7

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC

Mini7

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC

xXDavidCXx

Go Kart Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
I measured my car up tonight to get an idea for where things sit. My car was close to the heights you posted pages ago, ~25.5" from the ground to fender, a little lower than yours (I'm on a 245/40R18 PS4S). My front dampers (ST XTA) have about 2.3" of travel in the front before hitting the bumpstops. One note here is that ST's are a twin tube damper and Ohlins are monotube. Monotube dampers have less travel than a twin tube in a given body length. That said, the body lengths are probably different. Please consider measuring, because you really need to know the answer to if you have enough or not. You'll have to install the damper without the spring to measure...

Pre-load only affects the rebound stroke and you have an adjustment for that. You'll benefit more from being off the bumpstop, if indeed you are hitting. I could be wrong.

Tight means understeer, the opposite of loose.

If it were my car, I'd probably raise the car .5" all around, reset the toe to .125" out in the front and .25" out in the rear and give it hell. Lincoln airport has made every car I've ever driven on it much looser, so it's very surprising that your car is tight.

All efforts should be made to get more camber in the front of the car. You want all that is available to you. I wouldn't worry about "too much camber" until I passed -4.5. If the top mount top hats give you more more camber and more damper travel...even better. The measure of the right amount of camber comes from the timer, not a pyrometer.
If I get the new top mounts, I'll be in a position to measure up the shock travel.

However, I'm not sure I'll be able to fully use more front camber. One upper front sway-bar end-link is hitting the inner chassis wall like in the link below.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/a-track-rats-build-thread.371638/#post-7475162
 

JackRabbitSLIM

New member
Location
OHIO
Car(s)
MK7 GTI
Here are some of the other measurements I took for anyone interested in wheels rates. The swaybar rates are for the stock bars. The dimensions are probably similar on the aftermarket bars.
GTI Bar and MR.jpg

These are some calculation sheets I made for wheel rates, swaybar rate, weight transfer, etc. Use at your own risk.
GTI calculators
 

pseudorealityx

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Decatur, GA
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE
Also, I'm considering more front camber from a revised Ground Control top mount.

https://hinzmotorsport.com/products/ground-control-camber-plates?variant=31599346581527

Buuuut, my tire temps from this weekend don't support more camber.

At the test and tune, and at the points event, whichever front tire did the most work, i.e. the preponderance of the turns in one direction, the center of that tire was consistently the hottest.

I was running 34 PSI front, and based on shoulder wear, I didn't want to go any lower.

Also, the tire gauge I use, reads 1.5-3 psi lower than the gauge mounted in-line with my air tank.

So, here is another possibility.

Not enough front camber and fears of roll over damage to the outside edge of the tire, caused me to over pressurize (because of a pressure calibration issue) the front tires causing higher center temps resulting in less front grip.
Step 1, stop worrying about "fear of roll over damage to the outside edge of the tire". That's not a thing unless you're doing something crazy. Lots of cars that are severely camber limited, and they can drive just fine without damaging tires.
 

xXDavidCXx

Go Kart Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Step 1, stop worrying about "fear of roll over damage to the outside edge of the tire". That's not a thing unless you're doing something crazy. Lots of cars that are severely camber limited, and they can drive just fine without damaging tires.
I'm not afraid, and I know it's not damaging, this is just what I posted in the moment, trying to piece all the data together to figure this out.

Now that it's been a few days, what I wrote does not make much sense, lol.
 

xXDavidCXx

Go Kart Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Here are some of the other measurements I took for anyone interested in wheels rates. The swaybar rates are for the stock bars. The dimensions are probably similar on the aftermarket bars.
View attachment 180909

These are some calculation sheets I made for wheel rates, swaybar rate, weight transfer, etc. Use at your own risk.
GTI calculators
Thanks, I need to rethink the entire setup.

I just treated the coils as a slap-on-and go, and didn't put much thought into what I needed or what would happen with the setup instructions and prescribed spring rates. I was just happy to get Ohlins.

Back to the drawing board.

For sure I have either too high front or too low rear wheel rates, or both. I'll start there and figure out what wheel rate I want to live with.
 

bfury5

Go Kart Newbie
Location
CT
Thanks, I need to rethink the entire setup.

I just treated the coils as a slap-on-and go, and didn't put much thought into what I needed or what would happen with the setup instructions and prescribed spring rates. I was just happy to get Ohlins.

Back to the drawing board.

For sure I have either too high front or too low rear wheel rates, or both. I'll start there and figure out what wheel rate I want to live with.
I would look at the wheel frequency instead of the wheel rate (you get frequency from wheel rate and a few other factors). For a suspension designed for racing on a 200TW tire, you'll want to be on the upper end of the "street" spectrum which is ~2hz in the front, and slightly higher (~2.2-2.3hz) in the back. From there you can fine tune based on feel. Working with the guy who built my suspension, that's how we decided on the initial springrates.
 

Gvazquez

Go Kart Newbie
Location
North Carolina
Thanks, I need to rethink the entire setup.

I just treated the coils as a slap-on-and go, and didn't put much thought into what I needed or what would happen with the setup instructions and prescribed spring rates. I was just happy to get Ohlins.

Back to the drawing board.

For sure I have either too high front or too low rear wheel rates, or both. I'll start there and figure out what wheel rate I want to live with.
Why does no one on here get some fortune auto 510s? They're a really good coilover setup used on a lot of time attack cars and you can do custom spring rates and valve for it. They're ohlins money when you add swift springs but it sounds like you wont have to worry about being stuck with the spring rates these companies force you to use
 

xXDavidCXx

Go Kart Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
I would look at the wheel frequency instead of the wheel rate (you get frequency from wheel rate and a few other factors). For a suspension designed for racing on a 200TW tire, you'll want to be on the upper end of the "street" spectrum which is ~2hz in the front, and slightly higher (~2.2-2.3hz) in the back. From there you can fine tune based on feel. Working with the guy who built my suspension, that's how we decided on the initial springrates.
Yeah, wheel frequency, meant to say that. I was thinking the same range.
 

xXDavidCXx

Go Kart Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Why does no one on here get some fortune auto 510s? They're a really good coilover setup used on a lot of time attack cars and you can do custom spring rates and valve for it. They're ohlins money when you add swift springs but it sounds like you wont have to worry about being stuck with the spring rates these companies force you to use
I would never put Ohlin in the same sentence as fortune auto, but that's just me.
 
Top