Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

[GTIfan99]

Now I can't decide between the 2 I posted. lol.

 

[Will_]

I had an Autocross event today at Thunderhill in NorCal. I run in STH but am definitely not optimized for the class (although my Aerofabb bits technically push me to DSP, I only go like 2-3 times a year so I'm not competing for anything). This was only my 3rd autocross event so I'm still learning quite a bit. I also had brand new Yokohama Advan Apex V601s (280 treadwear, basically A052's little brother) and a new brake kit, so that combo took a little getting used to.

My runs were as follows:

For reference, no one in AS/BS/CS time went under 45.0, most people were in the 46/47 range. Best time of the day was 43.3 from an incredible driver in an absolutely dialed in STU E92 M3. Dude was seriously kicking ass.

Run 1: Trying to be smooth and learn the course, felt decent
Run 2: Accidentally left traction control on and was fighting it the whole time
Run 3: Overdrove two sections on the first half and lost a lot of time but had a good second half of the lap
Run 4: Pretty solid lap, but definitely still left at least a second out there. I think I could do around 47.5, maybe 47.2 if I really nailed it. Wish I could've had a fifth run but it was incredibly busy today.

Here is an in car view of my final run (make sure to watch in 1080p or 1440!)

Also some bonus rooftop (Gran Turismo view) footage from my second run.

I am open to advice/constructive criticism. Personally I noticed a few things. 1) I short shifted into 3rd a few times. Should've probably just run out 2nd. 2) I broke quite early and easy into a few turns, I think with more time with the new brake setup I will get used to its limits. 3) I need to be a little smoother and more patient in some of my transitions, letting the car settle so I can put the power down more efficiently.

Overall had a blast though! Car ran flawlessly and nothing broke so that's always a plus.

 

[catacon]

I had an Autocross event today at Thunderhill in NorCal. I run in STH but am definitely not optimized for the class (although my Aerofabb bits technically push me to DSP, I only go like 2-3 times a year so I'm not competing for anything). This was only my 3rd autocross event so I'm still learning quite a bit. I also had brand new Yokohama Advan Apex V601s (280 treadwear, basically A052's little brother) and a new brake kit, so that combo took a little getting used to.

My runs were as follows:

View attachment 174342

For reference, no one in AS/BS/CS time went under 45.0, most people were in the 46/47 range. Best time of the day was 43.3 from an incredible driver in an absolutely dialed in STU E92 M3. Dude was seriously kicking ass.

Run 1: Trying to be smooth and learn the course, felt decent
Run 2: Accidentally left traction control on and was fighting it the whole time
Run 3: Overdrove two sections on the first half and lost a lot of time but had a good second half of the lap
Run 4: Pretty solid lap, but definitely still left at least a second out there. I think I could do around 47.5, maybe 47.2 if I really nailed it. Wish I could've had a fifth run but it was incredibly busy today.

Here is an in car view of my final run (make sure to watch in 1080p or 1440!)

Also some bonus rooftop (Gran Turismo view) footage from my second run.

I am open to advice/constructive criticism. Personally I noticed a few things. 1) I short shifted into 3rd a few times. Should've probably just run out 2nd. 2) I broke quite early and easy into a few turns, I think with more time with the new brake setup I will get used to its limits. 3) I need to be a little smoother and more patient in some of my transitions, letting the car settle so I can put the power down more efficiently.

Overall had a blast though! Car ran flawlessly and nothing broke so that's always a plus.

View attachment 174344

Since you are new to autocross, most of the standard advice applies: be smooth with your inputs, look ahead, etc. The one thing that really stood out to me in your videos is that you are miles off the cones. Autocross is all about minimizing distance to the cones. It looks to me like you were following the white line a bit - once you are familiar with the course, ignore the line and follow the cones.

This is by no means a prime example of autocross technique, but in this video, look at how close I'm getting to the cones. There are several spots I should have been even closer.

It just takes practice to learn where the corners of the car are and be able to get the car setup as close to the cones (the ones that matter at least). Looking ahead helps a lot with that too.

 

[GTIfan99]

Everything is a late apex when you're starting. Keep close to the cones. You were actually pretty close to the cones that matter, so good job there. Walk the course multiple times, try to get an experienced peron to walk the course with you. Look ahead. Everyone says be smooth, but most new people don't really understand what that means. You can still use the brake to there full capacity when needed, just don't stomp on them, get into and out of them smoothly. Smooth steering input doesn't mean slow, it means understanding and anticipating steering needs so your aren't reacting half a second after steering input is needed, thus creating the need to overcorrect. Remember, direction change doesn't occur until the tires and suspension take a set and everything fully deflects and compresses. When starting out, start your turn in half a second sooner than you think you need to. Also, don't be afraid to spin. It's the only way to learn the limits of the car and tires. Go fast through the fast parts and don't over drive the slow parts. If you felt fast in a slow section, you were likely slow.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

What parts are you all waiting on to install or test at the next (first) event?

I've decided against the varex muffler. It was on back-order and the dates kept slipping and changing. In the end i'd rather keep the money for a mod that will actually make my car more competitive.

This week I should get Verkline rear sway links.

I've already installed a dog bone insert. I have not tested a launch with the 265 RE71s, but I'm not sure it will be that effective at curbing wheel hop.

I've also got my eye on the Ohlin road and track coils. I have to pass the mandatory 2-week test (wife says if in two weeks I still want them) before I order, however it does not appear in-stock at any dealer, so it would probably be a month before they arrive.

Still need a new alignment to reduce rear toe in.

 

[catacon]

Figured I'd throw my STH setup into the mix. I ran GS the past two years - won the PAX championship in the STL region last year and trophied at Spring Nats. The smart thing to do would have been to stay in GS, but I wanted to have a little more fun with the car.

Current setup is:

Wheels: APR A01 18x9 +40
Tires: 265/35R18 RE71R
Shocks: Koni Yellow fronts, TC Kline DA rears
Springs: 430# front, 550# rear
Camber plates: Ground Control
Coilovers: Ground Control conversion kit - ~0.5" drop
Swaybars: Stock front, 034 rear - full stiff
Camber: -2.0° front, -1.8° rear
Toe: 0.0° front, 0.14° in rear
Exhaust: muffler delete
Tune: Stage 1

Ran my first event with the setup on Sunday and the car felt great. Turn in is really good and the car felt very stable. Transitions felt good and body roll seems well controlled. Had some cone trouble so ended up 5th in PAX, but had a good enough scratch time for 3rd. I have another event this Sunday, so I will do some more testing on this setup.

I know there's been a lot of questions about the 265 setup with 18x9s. +40 offset seems to be about perfect - slight poke, but not bad. I had minor rubbing on the front fender screws which the screw mod will fix (should have just done this from the start). Right rear is rubbing the fender liner next to the filler neck, but no signs of rubbing on the neck itself. I did shift the gas tank over, but I'm not sure I needed to. The course last Sunday was a good test for rubbing as there were a few sections where the car was loaded up, near full lock, and then a significant bump on course. If it didn't destroy anything then, I think it'll be good. I did have some rubbing on the front fender liner right after install, but that was pre-alignment with 1.4° total front toe - no issues with a proper alignment.

I'll be ordering a downpipe and intercooler this week and hopefully have them installed for an event later this month. I also need to figure out a solution for front camber. The Koni Yellow adjusters stick through the shock tower and limit front camber to -2.0°. I asked GC about this specifically and they said it wouldn't be an issue, but it is and the only fix is to modify the shock towers which isn't ST legal. Overall, though, I'm really happy with the car and my first crack at a setup. I think with a little tweaking of alignment and damping, the car will be pretty well set.

 

[GTIfan99]

My current set is...

EQT stage 1 tune.
aFe filter and snow grate removal.
Neuspeed insert for motor mount.
APR springs.
H&R 26mm rear sway.
Neuspeed RSe16's 17 x 8.5 with 245/40 17 RE71R's.
Eurosport camber kit.
Front -2.4 camber, .14 toe out
Rear -1.8 camber .14 toe in.

Car is amazing. Good turn in, neutral, with controllable oversteer on throttle lift. I think the setup works so well because our primary site is really old asphalt and this is about how I'd set the car up for rain on a better surface. Works well on the street too. Would be awful on high grip concrete I'd guess.

Planning on a LiPo battery, Koni Sports, 18 x 9 with 265's next year, though I'm worried I don't have enough spring to run a 265, and I'm not willing to do much else to the suspension to a daily driven car.

I also replaced all the factory speakers. Do it if you haven't already.

 

[theDoktor]

@catacon, whose springs are you using?

 

[catacon]

@catacon, whose springs are you using?

Eibach from Ground Control. 2.5" diameter. 7" long front and 8" rear.

 

[The Dude]

Figured I'd throw my STH setup into the mix. I ran GS the past two years - won the PAX championship in the STL region last year and trophied at Spring Nats. The smart thing to do would have been to stay in GS, but I wanted to have a little more fun with the car.

Current setup is:

Wheels: APR A01 18x9 +40
Tires: 265/35R18 RE71R
Shocks: Koni Yellow fronts, TC Kline DA rears
Springs: 430# front, 550# rear
Camber plates: Ground Control
Coilovers: Ground Control conversion kit - ~0.5" drop
Swaybars: Stock front, 034 rear - full stiff
Camber: -2.0° front, -1.8° rear
Toe: 0.0° front, 0.14° in rear
Exhaust: muffler delete
Tune: Stage 1

Ran my first event with the setup on Sunday and the car felt great. Turn in is really good and the car felt very stable. Transitions felt good and body roll seems well controlled. Had some cone trouble so ended up 5th in PAX, but had a good enough scratch time for 3rd. I have another event this Sunday, so I will do some more testing on this setup.

I know there's been a lot of questions about the 265 setup with 18x9s. +40 offset seems to be about perfect - slight poke, but not bad. I had minor rubbing on the front fender screws which the screw mod will fix (should have just done this from the start). Right rear is rubbing the fender liner next to the filler neck, but no signs of rubbing on the neck itself. I did shift the gas tank over, but I'm not sure I needed to. The course last Sunday was a good test for rubbing as there were a few sections where the car was loaded up, near full lock, and then a significant bump on course. If it didn't destroy anything then, I think it'll be good. I did have some rubbing on the front fender liner right after install, but that was pre-alignment with 1.4° total front toe - no issues with a proper alignment.

I'll be ordering a downpipe and intercooler this week and hopefully have them installed for an event later this month. I also need to figure out a solution for front camber. The Koni Yellow adjusters stick through the shock tower and limit front camber to -2.0°. I asked GC about this specifically and they said it wouldn't be an issue, but it is and the only fix is to modify the shock towers which isn't ST legal. Overall, though, I'm really happy with the car and my first crack at a setup. I think will a little tweaking of alignment and damping, the car will be pretty well set.

do you have any photos showing how the tires fit from the front or rear? maybe some close ups showing clearance?

 

[catacon]

do you have any photos showing how the tires fit from the front or rear? maybe some close ups showing clearance?

Front:

Rear:

 

[blaqsheep]

Front:

Glad to see someone running the GC coilover conversion. How are you finding the spring rates? Have you played around with the height adjustment - curious how low you can get it.

I was following Cliff's thread where he ran a Ground Control's prototype a few years back, I'm surprised they set you up with 7" front springs instead of 5.5" springs - and now also 8" rears instead of 7".

I'm still trying to sell a kit I was told fit a MK7 but is in fact for the MK5, 5.5" 475# fronts and 7" 600# rears Was really looking forward to running them.

 

[The Dude]

for aesthetics, maybe just an inch and a half lower it'd be perfect.

 

[catacon]

Glad to see someone running the GC coilover conversion. How are you finding the spring rates? Have you played around with the height adjustment - curious how low you can get it.

I was following Cliff's thread where he ran a Ground Control's prototype a few years back, I'm surprised they set you up with 7" front springs instead of 5.5" springs - and now also 8" rears instead of 7".

I'm still trying to sell a kit I was told fit a MK7 but is in fact for the MK5, 5.5" 475# fronts and 7" 600# rears Was really looking forward to running them.

Spring rates seems pretty solid so far. Need more on course testing to decide for sure, though. On the street they are bearable; paired with the DA rear shocks, the rear is definitely stiff, but I don't mind it.

Yeah, I am really beginning to question GC's suggestions. The were just wrong about the Koni Yellows working with their camber plates and the 7" front spring is too long. I have the front adjuster about maxed out and would still like to go lower. I can go a lot lower in the rear, so no complaints there.

 

[catacon]

for aesthetics, maybe just an inch and a half lower it'd be perfect.

Agreed, I could definitely go lower. I'm still monster trucking a bit at this point. I wanted to make sure tire clearance was OK before going too low, though.