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Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Good choice.

I’m about at the limit of compromise with my daily driver HPDE. 450lbs springs front and rear with a larger rear sway bar. Firm but still decent.

Verkline front LCA is going to blow the compromise right out the water. Lol

No lie, I'm waiting to hear from you if they are terrible on the street. I'll be very jealous of all that negative camber.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
Is Jinx still active?

Not sure if I know who that is?

Oh, it does. Zero out your rear toe and your GTI becomes a drift machine. Ask me how I know. I'm telling you, maximize front grip, then rear get camber roughly close to maximize contact and wear, toe to fine tune your rotation, then tire pressure to fine tune further for different surfaces and conditions.

FWIW, I had a stock-ish alignment on my car last year (no specific numbers) when I ran GS, and my car could be made tail happy with a good application of the brakes. This was with 245/40 RE71 and a fat rear bar

In our setting, daily driven autocross cars, I chose a mild increase in spring rate and larger rear sway.

Dedicated track car, I'd completely do with stiffer springs.

Also agree with this, sway bars are cheap / easy performance gains, but attack the problem of roll in sort of a backwards way (springs vs roll bar)

Good choice.

I’m about at the limit of compromise with my daily driver HPDE. 450lbs springs front and rear with a larger rear sway bar. Firm but still decent.

Verkline front LCA is going to blow the compromise right out the water. Lol

I daily drive my car right now and I have 450lb front and 750lb rear, granted this is setup more for autox. Once the season starts we'll see how it goes but I could see myself going slightly stiffer and having the car still be daily-able for what it is
 

The Dude

Autocross Champion
Location
PNW
Car(s)
MK7 GTI S
I daily drive my car right now and I have 450lb front and 750lb rear, granted this is setup more for autox. Once the season starts we'll see how it goes but I could see myself going slightly stiffer and having the car still be daily-able for what it is
i think he meant the verkline LCA's may ruin the driveability.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
i think he meant the verkline LCA's may ruin the driveability.
yeah I noticed that, it sounded like he also meant anything over the 450lb springs for stiffness would also compromise driveability (which is fair)
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I daily drive my car right now and I have 450lb front and 750lb rear, granted this is setup more for autox. Once the season starts we'll see how it goes but I could see myself going slightly stiffer and having the car still be daily-able for what it is

450/750 is the kind of setup I was talking about. Do you still run a big rear bar? If you go to slicks you will likely need to step up the springs rates front and rear again. 450/750 is still doable on a daily driver, but you will be approaching the limit of most folks tolerance for a firm ride. Especially when coupled with camber plates.

Dual duty daily driver/track car is always a compromise. Leave it stock and it suffers on track. Improve the handling and the ride quality starts to be compromised. 450/450 springs work well on track and are still decent for DD duties.

On smooth roads, I don’t expect the Verklines will be a whole lot different than my current setup comfort wise. Rough concrete highways are going to be noisy for sure. Bridge expansion joints are going to suck. But they will make the front end very precise given the adjustments available.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
450/750 is the kind of setup I was talking about. Do you still run a big rear bar? If you go to slicks you will likely need to step up the springs rates front and rear again. 450/750 is still doable on a daily driver, but you will be approaching the limit of most folks tolerance for a firm ride. Especially when coupled with camber plates.

Dual duty daily driver/track car is always a compromise. Leave it stock and it suffers on track. Improve the handling and the ride quality starts to be compromised. 450/450 springs work well on track and are still decent for DD duties.

On smooth roads, I don’t expect the Verklines will be a whole lot different than my current setup comfort wise. Rough concrete highways are going to be noisy for sure. Bridge expansion joints are going to suck. But they will make the front end very precise given the adjustments available.

I do still run a big bar in the back for now (034) but I have it set at the softer of the two settings. I did my coils in anticipation for the season, so unfortunately I haven't had the chance to test everything out yet since most events are cancelled. the 450/750 actually isn't bad as a DD, the plates suck (especially because these are no-name ones) over expansion joints but the setup is smoother than expected overall. I won't be jumping to "slicks" per say, but I'll be running 200TW. I'm sort of anticipating a spring change at some point, but I need to see how the bars / springs / tires play with each other first.

If I had seen the Verkline LCA before I did my coils, I'd probably be trying to find some OEM style top mounts to replace the plates and then do the LCA for way better adjustability. The only downside to those is that it still looks like you'd have to remove them to adjust the arm lengths (loosen jam nut then spin the heim joint)
 

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
I do still run a big bar in the back for now (034) but I have it set at the softer of the two settings. I did my coils in anticipation for the season, so unfortunately I haven't had the chance to test everything out yet since most events are cancelled. the 450/750 actually isn't bad as a DD, the plates suck (especially because these are no-name ones) over expansion joints but the setup is smoother than expected overall. I won't be jumping to "slicks" per say, but I'll be running 200TW. I'm sort of anticipating a spring change at some point, but I need to see how the bars / springs / tires play with each other first.

If I had seen the Verkline LCA before I did my coils, I'd probably be trying to find some OEM style top mounts to replace the plates and then do the LCA for way better adjustability. The only downside to those is that it still looks like you'd have to remove them to adjust the arm lengths (loosen jam nut then spin the heim joint)
Are you running with SCCA?

If so, the Verkline LCA is not legal for STH, due to the material of the suspension links.

14.8.B
Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset bushings may be used. In a replacement bushing, the amount of metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be increased. This does not authorize a change in type of bushing (e.g., ball and socket replacing a cylindrical bushing) or use of a bushing with an angled hole whose direction differs from that of the original bushing. If the standard bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar component involving internal moving parts. Pins or keys may be used to prevent the rotation of alternate bushings but may serve no other purpose than that of retaining the bushing in the desired position.

As awesome as the Verkline LCA is, it breaks all the rules.

I emailed them to see if I could adapt just the lower offset ball joint to the OEM part, but they said you have to get the whole LCA for the parts to work.

I don't know why a company hasn't made an offset lower ball joint yet for the MQB platform.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
Are you running with SCCA?

If so, the Verkline LCA is not legal for STH, due to the material of the suspension links.

14.8.B
Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset bushings may be used. In a replacement bushing, the amount of metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be increased. This does not authorize a change in type of bushing (e.g., ball and socket replacing a cylindrical bushing) or use of a bushing with an angled hole whose direction differs from that of the original bushing. If the standard bushing accommodated multi-axis motion via compliance of the component material(s), the replacement bushing may not be changed to accommodate such motion via a change in bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar component involving internal moving parts. Pins or keys may be used to prevent the rotation of alternate bushings but may serve no other purpose than that of retaining the bushing in the desired position.

As awesome as the Verkline LCA is, it breaks all the rules.

I emailed them to see if I could adapt just the lower offset ball joint to the OEM part, but they said you have to get the whole LCA for the parts to work.

I don't know why a company hasn't made an offset lower ball joint yet for the MQB platform.
Well, sounds like it's time to design an adjustable LCA
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Not sure if I know who that is?



FWIW, I had a stock-ish alignment on my car last year (no specific numbers) when I ran GS, and my car could be made tail happy with a good application of the brakes. This was with 245/40 RE71 and a fat rear bar



Also agree with this, sway bars are cheap / easy performance gains, but attack the problem of roll in sort of a backwards way (springs vs roll bar)



I daily drive my car right now and I have 450lb front and 750lb rear, granted this is setup more for autox. Once the season starts we'll see how it goes but I could see myself going slightly stiffer and having the car still be daily-able for what it is

Those high of spring rates would be terrible on our primary site. It's really old asphalt and you set the car up like it's always raining, so spring rates are also heavily dependent on surface. What's good on a nice concrete surface is terrible on a WWII era runway and everything in between.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
Those high of spring rates would be terrible on our primary site. It's really old asphalt and you set the car up like it's always raining, so spring rates are also heavily dependent on surface. What's good on a nice concrete surface is terrible on a WWII era runway and everything in between.
Yeah it's a compromise for sure, trying to dial in setup for the car and also for the conditions. I typically run on asphalt here (fairly good condition) so that's what I leaned toward
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
What do you guys think about this battery? 6.4 lbs is more that the typical 3 lbs that people usually use, but 23ah vs 10 of 12ah for most lighter batteries might be a good compromise for a daily driven car. I know the battery isn't as far forward in the engine bay as it is in Subarus, so it might not be as noticeable, but it's low hanging fruit for $229 and they say they're made in US.

https://dakotalithium.com/product/d...amp-hour-23ah-lifepo4-battery/?v=7516fd43adaa
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
What do you guys think about this battery? 6.4 lbs is more that the typical 3 lbs that people usually use, but 23ah vs 10 of 12ah for most lighter batteries might be a good compromise for a daily driven car. I know the battery isn't as far forward in the engine bay as it is in Subarus, so it might not be as noticeable, but it's low hanging fruit for $229 and they say they're made in US.

https://dakotalithium.com/product/d...amp-hour-23ah-lifepo4-battery/?v=7516fd43adaa
I don't see anything about the batteries cold cranking amps. Not sure what is required for a 4cyl but that's usually something mentioned on most automotive batteries.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
I don't see anything about the batteries cold cranking amps. Not sure what is required for a 4cyl but that's usually something mentioned on most automotive batteries.

I live in Florida. Don't need no cold cranking anything. lol.
 
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