Progressive or Linear?

[jmp4golfvw]

Hey planning on upgrading my suspension:
-sway bar (front and rear)
-shocks/struts
-springs

Just a quick question, I was considering getting some Koni FSD's and was wondering what the best spring combination (linear or progressive) I should use w/ an upgraded shock/strut kit...I currently have DG springs on and wanted to get something w/ a little more drop. I've been looking at VWR (1"-1.2" drop) and Emmanuel springs (1.6" drop)...any help would be appreciated!

 

[Stage2Sasquatch]

If you don't mind me asking, do you have the funds to move up to Koni Yellows? Those are some of the best dampers on the market IMO. With excellent valving they can be compliant on the street and with a few adjustments great on the track too.

But on to springs, generally the stock struts have a hard time dealing with progressive springs. Since you plan on upgrading this shouldn't be too much of an issue. The general rule of thumb is that Progressive springs will ride a bit harsher than linear but you can also get more aggressive spring rates than the VWR's. (Nuespeed race/sport is 260/290 lb/in).

I would say pick the amount of drop you want and go from there. If you want a small drop and don't plan on tracking very much, go with VWR hands-down. If you want more of a drop, look into the progressive options (H&R, ED Springs, Nuespeed etc.)

 

[Z27]

I have Neuspeed Sport and Koni FSD. Surprisingly the drop is lower than VWR (which I had before). I went with this setup because my goal was to achieve comfort. I love it.

 

[jmp4golfvw]

If you don't mind me asking, do you have the funds to move up to Koni Yellows? Those are some of the best dampers on the market IMO. With excellent valving they can be compliant on the street and with a few adjustments great on the track too.

But on to springs, generally the stock struts have a hard time dealing with progressive springs. Since you plan on upgrading this shouldn't be too much of an issue. The general rule of thumb is that Progressive springs will ride a bit harsher than linear but you can also get more aggressive spring rates than the VWR's. (Nuespeed race/sport is 260/290 lb/in).

I would say pick the amount of drop you want and go from there. If you want a small drop and don't plan on tracking very much, go with VWR hands-down. If you want more of a drop, look into the progressive options (H&R, ED Springs, Nuespeed etc.)

Yeah I'm not going to be tracking, but do like spirited driving when I can. Basically, I'm saving up for a few upgrades, some I waiting for warranty to be up and some like the Jb1 I'm going to do soon. That and a drop in filter. But I'd like to do some upgrades to the brakes and some suspension upgrades...I had a friend go with the FSD's on his DD and he was super happy with the results. Said it was like having DCC w/o having actual DCC. What is it about the yellows vs. the FSD's? Oh and price is always an issue lol [emoji6] do think I'm going to stick with the VWR Springs though, unless I'll get better comfort/handling from something else. And I have heard good things about the Emmanuel springs, linear also and a little lower drop w/ the Golf. Choices....thanks btw for your help!

I have Neuspeed Sport and Koni FSD. Surprisingly the drop is lower than VWR (which I had before). I went with this setup because my goal was to achieve comfort. I love it.

Thanks for the input...so you like the FSD's? How is the ride/comfort/handing with this set up springs and struts/shocks? Did you go from stock springs and shocks to that set-up? Last question lol, how long you been on the new suspension? Thanks [emoji106]

 

[BxGTI]

I had FSD's on a lowered MINI I wasn't happy with spring but the FSD's were great they are great for comfort I think that the yellows are adjustable or something like that and work better with lowering springs, don't quote me on that last statement lol but FSD for comfort are great
Ok so they are adjustable
http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=398

 

[jmp4golfvw]

Thanks I did not know that, now I do [emoji6] but yeah so FSD's are self adjusting and yellows are 2 way adjustable. Now I see why yellows are pricey [emoji857]

 

[Hammersticks]

Hey planning on upgrading my suspension:
-sway bar (front and rear)
-shocks/struts
-springs

Just a quick question, I was considering getting some Koni FSD's and was wondering what the best spring combination (linear or progressive) I should use w/ an upgraded shock/strut kit...I currently have DG springs on and wanted to get something w/ a little more drop. I've been looking at VWR (1"-1.2" drop) and Emmanuel springs (1.6" drop)...any help would be appreciated!

Per Koni technical sales, the FSDs don't care about progressive vs. linear, you just can't drop it to where you're frequently hitting the bump stops. They recommend no lower than a 1.5" drop.

 

[soundmike]

The general rule of thumb is that Progressive springs will ride a bit harsher than linear

For daily duties, progressive rates will actually be more comfortable than linear.

For track, linear is better because it's more predictable but can get harsh on the streets because all bumps, big or small, are met with the same reactive rates.

I personally prefer linear-rate springs that are just a notch above what OEM is rated at. It's a great compromise if you do mostly street vs. track.

OP, also FWIW, i contacted Koni tech directly about their FSD's and they say the VWR springs are just fine with it. That combo should be fairly comfortable for the streets since the FSD has that "progressive" nature. Although as a combo, i think it's lack of predictability between static and fully-compressed state could spell trouble on the track or any hard driving.

 

[jmp4golfvw]

Can anyone help me understand what the spring rate is in general and how spring rates relate to the performance/comfort (or lack of) of the spring?

Oh and currently I'm not doing any track, it's all DD for me...Always been curious though.

 

[PLF8593]

On a somewhat unrelated note, you might not need to get front sways. But you're Ina golf not a GTI so maybe you do need them. I've just heard most people say the GTI doesn't need front sways for DD applications

 

[Stage2Sasquatch]

Can anyone help me understand what the spring rate is in general and how spring rates relate to the performance/comfort (or lack of) of the spring?

Oh and currently I'm not doing any track, it's all DD for me...Always been curious though.

Yeah so Spring rate is basically the amount of weight need to compress the spring an inch. So if you have a 250 lbs/inch spring, for every 250 pounds of load it will compress one inch (Talking about linear springs right now). As a general rule higher spring rates will have a harsher ride and softer springs will have a more compliant ride.

Now the reason we are talking about linear vs. progressive is because linear has the same spring rate across the board where as progressive changes it's spring rate. Take a look at this graph:

This is just an example with a 100 lbs/in linear spring, a dual rate spring and a progressive spring. As you can see the progressive spring is actually softer than the linear until you load it up past ~350 pounds or so. That's why progressive springs kind of has the best of both worlds. The downside is that it doesn't have the linear feel so you lose the consistency that you want for track driving.

For daily duties, progressive rates will actually be more comfortable than linear.

For track, linear is better because it's more predictable but can get harsh on the streets because all bumps, big or small, are met with the same reactive rates.

The issue that you aren't taking into account is the options that we have available to us. Right now one of the only options for a linear spring is VWR. They have close to the same spring rate as stock so the ride is almost identical despite being linear. Almost all of the progressive springs have a good bit higher spring rate (H&R for example, or Nuespeed which is 260/290 lbs/in if I remember correctly) which is why even though your logic is 100% sound, for our cars you will generally find the linear options to be more compliant than our progressive options.

 

[soundmike]

Can anyone help me understand what the spring rate is in general and how spring rates relate to the performance/comfort (or lack of) of the spring?

Quite simply, it's the amount of force required to compress the spring.

Main difference between how both types of spring reacts, using sample numbers:

Linear - 300lb/in. Through out the entire travel of the spring, it takes 300lbs for it to compress an inch.

Progressive. Certain portions of the spring will require different amounts of force to compress an inch at a time.

So, for progressive, it could be that the first 2 inches of travel only need 200lbs to compress per inch, then ramp up to 300lbs for the remainder of the travel, up to full compression.

What this means in real life is, with spring rates relatively "same", the progressive spring can more comfortably absorb some of the bumps you encounter in daily driving because it has a couple of inches of soft travel available to accommodate them.

With linear rates, smaller bumps get transmitted more readily (and often harshly) since the springs won't give as easily.

On track, linear springs are typically more advantageous because you know how and when the spring compresses, especially when making critical turns and s-curves. With progressive, it could lean quickly one second, then stiffly the next.

 

[Hammersticks]

For daily duties, progressive rates will actually be more comfortable than linear.

For track, linear is better because it's more predictable but can get harsh on the streets because all bumps, big or small, are met with the same reactive rates.

I personally prefer linear-rate springs that are just a notch above what OEM is rated at. It's a great compromise if you do mostly street vs. track.

OP, also FWIW, i contacted Koni tech directly about their FSD's and they say the VWR springs are just fine with it. That combo should be fairly comfortable for the streets since the FSD has that "progressive" nature. Although as a combo, i think it's lack of predictability between static and fully-compressed state could spell trouble on the track or any hard driving.

Thanks for this. I have been considering VWR + FSD, VWR + Koni yellows, and Neuspeed Sport + FSD.


Also, OP - Per Neuspeed the GTI stock spring rates are 175/230. (Neuspeed: 260/290, VWR: 252/336)

 

[Dave10781]

The FSDs are made to be mated to a stock height spring and spring rate. Keep in mind if you are lowering the car, they will no longer be ideal with your setup.

On my mk6, I ran VWRs (linear) and Bilstein B8 (sport) dampers and it felt amazing. Can't go wrong with those or Koni yellows to save a few dollars.

In my opinion, linear is better for the street, mostly because of the upper range of the progressive spring yielding unpleasant ride quality over bad roads. Most linear spring rates aren't harsh at all, especially when paired to a good damper.

 

[geebob]

Koni yellows, rear bar and stock springs. Then dial in the comfort/handling ratio you want with tires. This formula works with most any small fwd car with passive suspension.