GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Is20 - - > is38 upgrade question

Nerdy Oreo

Go Kart Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Car(s)
Mk7 Gti S
Wanted to chime in here as I’ve gone the Stage 1 > Stage 2 > IS38 route, oh and also fellow New Englander. As I’m understanding now, you are stage 2 yet haven’t upgraded the intercooler. If so, I know DO88 is great but you should really shop around for the various seasonal sales the online merchants offer. For instance, I run the Unitronic original location upgrade and you can get it for a good price when it’s on sale and I’ve monitored hours of IAT’s and it’s been fine.

The IS38, I went OEM Audi/VW as it was a great price and probably priced wrong, but my gain. First went with EQT OTS IS38 tune and was running into a fueling issue at times, so the notion that a HPFP is a waste is not definitive. Upgraded to a prebuilt Autotech and have a custom tune with EQT now. Matt has been superb there and always communicative but as people said here, you start upgrading things like turbos and mess around with tuning, issues arise.

The e85 would be nice and I feel your pain but I work in the city and at times will hit up the Shell at Logan and switch over to an e30 file. There is a difference. The 32 psi above is interesting and surprised they pushed it that high as usually 28/29 is usually the healthy threshold for the IS38. As far as tires, the most “aggressive” I run are Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 Plus on a Neuspeed 18x8.5 wheel. Yeah, first and second gear wide open throttle will create traction issues but third gear, I really don’t go crazy with the car so I’ve never encountered a third gear traction issue.

All in all, car is approaching 100,000 miles for a 2018 and I love the car, but New England sucks and aside from going hybrid, I’m done with the car and will probably move on in the spring. As I said, love it and it’s been beyond good to me, but I need a higher base to start with and then start the modding again. Take care my friend and keep us updated.
Heck yeah! I also have the dws06's. I'm still debating atm between the CTS FMIC and the DO88. Itl be fully about cost at this point. As I said before, it depends on the new years work bonus. If it's not enough to cover both intercooler and turbo I'll be doing intercooler 100% followed up by something else like brakes or something. I'm. Exited. Thank you for all of this information! What is it like when you run into the those fueling issues? How. Do you tell?
 

Nerdy Oreo

Go Kart Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Car(s)
Mk7 Gti S
So far the only IC in general that's outright been bad is the ECS one. It's 1 of 2 FMICs tested so far (other being a Baun V1).

I collect logs of cars on TRACK - this does not reflect street performance. Realistically speaking they'll likely all be pretty similar for a single pull or two I imagine. Refer to Jeff's testing for stuff more along those lines. IMO a 5-10F difference from one to another isn't even worth bothering if you're just looking at street pulls. If long term you want more POWER then unless it's a higher flowing core, it might become limiting at some point.

IMO the main advantage to a FMIC is that you can run the A/C and not have the hot condenser air add 8ish-15F to your IATs on average - how much exactly will depend on how hot and humid it is outside. It's not a straightforward number.

Back to the track cooling stuff:
Full cooling reports here, with info on how these are collected:
https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetrain/coolingdata


The fact is under sustained hard use/constant lapping most all of the intercoolers perform about the same (all min and average values fall within a ~10F window of each other). @GTI Jake 's IC is right there with all the others, and I would expect any of the cheaper FMICs with smaller cores to perform more along the lines of the ECS one - though that's just speculation until some more actually gets tested. I'd like to see a CTS one since they're relatively popular.

Stock location have the advantage of a TON of surface area, FMIC have a minor location advantage, but IMO is mostly a moot point if A/C is turned off.

IAT delta min is probably the most relevant.
IAT delta max is going to be moreso dependent on track (time in turns off-throttle where the IAT creeps up due to lack of airflow through the manifold - even though the IC itself is probably cooling off)
IAT delta avg is worth considering since most samples are all in the ~50%-60% TPS average range when on track.

View attachment 291481


It's not "cheap", but the Mishimoto IC is cheaper than the DO88 and is great at dropping IATs even when heat soaked - meaning even better on the street. I DO have concerns that it might be more restrictive in airflow getting to the radiator under track conditions (look at @MonkeyMD 's logs in the link above)... but this would never be a concern or a problem on the street.

Also if you haven't gone through your cart yet - the shipping on the DO88 IC is STEEP. That's what I run, and IIRC added another $100+ to the cost because it's coming out of Sweden, unless EQT now stocks them locally - this was not the case when I ordered from them last year.
Yeah they charge $139 for shipping for the DO88. I might go somewhere else for it if it comes to it. Or like I've been seeing I might go with the $500 CTS FMIC. No one so far has given me the same "NOT DON'T GO WITH THAT FMIC" Like they did with ecs lmfao. Whenever it's brought up everyone kinda just glosses over it and continues to talk about how the difference between FMIC and stock location isn't huge and any intercooler is better than stock (besides ecs). Lol. So since I haven't been told off I'm currently between CTS FMIC and DO88
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Also to be clear - even on an E85 IS20 setup, the difference between AS and Summer was noticeable and stark. Similar power level to a pump 93 IS38 tune (I think) so I'd expect you to spin through most of 2nd and some of 3rd. Not trying to be a killjoy or harp anymore on it, but I've done both and there's a significant difference.
As I said, I get the whole fwd/physics issue and its need for a good summer/grippy tire for straight-line wheel spin control. As good as the current UHP all seasons are, they aren't a summer tire.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Granny driving 😂
If you can't hit the mountain runs aggressively on a current set of UHP all seasons like a PS4 all season there is an issue. I didn't say it was the most grippy setup (which would be a 200tw clearly) or that a set of summers is the way but if you can't carve turns on these type of tires a good clip you are driving too aggressively for a road with other people on it. Get off my lawn.
 

Nerdy Oreo

Go Kart Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Car(s)
Mk7 Gti S
If you're still around RI, my quickjacks, hands, and tools (including a 2x4) are always available free of charge. I have all the tools needed for a turbo swap.
How does Jake's IC perform and do you know it's cost? I've heard so many people say his is "the biggest FMIC to run" or something like that.
 

messrock

Autocross Champion
Location
Boston
Car(s)
18 GTI DSG
Yeah they charge $139 for shipping for the DO88. I might go somewhere else for it if it comes to it. Or like I've been seeing I might go with the $500 CTS FMIC. No one so far has given me the same "NOT DON'T GO WITH THAT FMIC" Like they did with ecs lmfao. Whenever it's brought up everyone kinda just glosses over it and continues to talk about how the difference between FMIC and stock location isn't huge and any intercooler is better than stock (besides ecs). Lol. So since I haven't been told off I'm currently between CTS FMIC and DO88
ARM > CTS - uses similar vibrant core to Baun.
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
Location
Slightly Outside Chicago
Car(s)
Mk6 racecar, Tacoma
If you can't hit the mountain runs aggressively on a current set of UHP all seasons like a PS4 all season there is an issue. I didn't say it was the most grippy setup (which would be a 200tw clearly) or that a set of summers is the way but if you can't carve turns on these type of tires a good clip you are driving too aggressively for a road with other people on it. Get off my lawn.
I took my track tires when I went to tail of the dragon. Glad I did, never had to worry about them overheating and turning into hockey pucks after the third turn. Put 1300 miles in 4 days hooning those roads. You get off my lawn (because you're in the ditch) 😂
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
So far the only IC in general that's outright been bad is the ECS one. It's 1 of 2 FMICs tested so far (other being a Baun V1).

I collect logs of cars on TRACK - this does not reflect street performance. Realistically speaking they'll likely all be pretty similar for a single pull or two I imagine. Refer to Jeff's testing for stuff more along those lines. IMO a 5-10F difference from one to another isn't even worth bothering if you're just looking at street pulls. If long term you want more POWER then unless it's a higher flowing core, it might become limiting at some point.

IMO the main advantage to a FMIC is that you can run the A/C and not have the hot condenser air add 8ish-15F to your IATs on average - how much exactly will depend on how hot and humid it is outside. It's not a straightforward number.

Back to the track cooling stuff:
Full cooling reports here, with info on how these are collected:
https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetrain/coolingdata


The fact is under sustained hard use/constant lapping most all of the intercoolers perform about the same (all min and average values fall within a ~10F window of each other). @GTI Jake 's IC is right there with all the others, and I would expect any of the cheaper FMICs with smaller cores to perform more along the lines of the ECS one - though that's just speculation until some more actually gets tested. I'd like to see a CTS one since they're relatively popular.

Stock location have the advantage of a TON of surface area, FMIC have a minor location advantage, but IMO is mostly a moot point if A/C is turned off.

IAT delta min is probably the most relevant.
IAT delta max is going to be moreso dependent on track (time in turns off-throttle where the IAT creeps up due to lack of airflow through the manifold - even though the IC itself is probably cooling off)
IAT delta avg is worth considering since most samples are all in the ~50%-60% TPS average range when on track.

View attachment 291481


It's not "cheap", but the Mishimoto IC is cheaper than the DO88 and is great at dropping IATs even when heat soaked - meaning even better on the street. I DO have concerns that it might be more restrictive in airflow getting to the radiator under track conditions (look at @MonkeyMD 's logs in the link above)... but this would never be a concern or a problem on the street.

Also if you haven't gone through your cart yet - the shipping on the DO88 IC is STEEP. That's what I run, and IIRC added another $100+ to the cost because it's coming out of Sweden, unless EQT now stocks them locally - this was not the case when I ordered from them last year.
I must be missing it but what is the number posted above each bar?
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I took my track tires when I went to tail of the dragon. Glad I did, never had to worry about them overheating and turning into hockey pucks after the third turn. Put 1300 miles in 4 days hooning those roads. You get off my lawn (because you're in the ditch) 😂
I've done runs on the ToTD and the BoTD in VA without issue/on both a street summer and a UHP all season....I stayed out of the ditches b/c I don't drive like an idiot. A set of 200s would be more funner I'm sure and allow higher corner speed/later braking.
 

Nerdy Oreo

Go Kart Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Car(s)
Mk7 Gti S
I have the Baun, found it here 2nd hand for a steal. Straight from Jake is $900. The piping and weld quality is exceptional.
So then baun and arm are the go to FMIC other than Jake's, and DO88 is go to for stock location?
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
Location
Slightly Outside Chicago
Car(s)
Mk6 racecar, Tacoma
I've done runs on the ToTD and the BoTD in VA without issue/on both a street summer and a UHP all season....I stayed out of the ditches b/c I don't drive like an idiot. A set of 200s would be more funner I'm sure and allow higher corner speed/later braking.
Which one of us had more fun?

🙋
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
How does Jake's IC perform and do you know it's cost? I've heard so many people say his is "the biggest FMIC to run" or something like that.

His V1 IC is in the chart I posted. It's on par with the better SMICs at about the same price currently ($900):
https://www.facebook.com/gtijake/po...j3x4SMxmPPrfddm1gaEHoVDLcHJy9pebn8mgJsSc4Jndl

ARM > CTS - uses similar vibrant core to Baun.

Not for you, but for @Nerdy Oreo : I can't speak for ARM - but CTS and ECS are not terribly dissimilar. It's pretty obvious the tiny core is not ideal and I'd avoid both.

It's cheaper to buy the good stuff the first time, than to "save money" and have to buy again later. A lesson I wish I'd learned a LONG time ago.

If you're dead set on not spending DO88 money for a budget IC: the biggest Majesty SMIC is supposedly a DO88 clone at nearly half the cost, and Mike R has been making some stupid power through a 3071 on it. I can't find the video of that, but he made 500+ on a 2867R. I think the "cheap" FMICs are just a lot harder to make "right" and not be limiting in some way down the road. When it comes to exchanging heat, having less surface area and volume is a really hard hurdle to overcome.

 
Last edited:

swcrow

Autocross Champion
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
7.5 GTI
I have the Baun, found it here 2nd hand for a steal. Straight from Jake is $900. The piping and weld quality is exceptional.
can confirm.....exceptional.
I've run his FMIC and piping since 2018 without a hiccup.
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
I must be missing it but what is the number posted above each bar?

It's just the sum total of min + avg + max IATs. Not particularly useful for "close" comparisons, but the sum total can be helpful in putting a number on BIG changes from one to another.

They're sorted left to right by average though FWIW.
 
Top