Haldex is TOAST. Culprit? Dealer tech "forgot" to refill.

[Swoope]

on a lighter note,

if you see stanhope tell him swoope says hi!

beers

 

[Urlik]

If I'm reading this correctly, the car drove normally for 1000+ miles without haldex fluid before the problem started showing itself? I would've thought the car would immediately start freaking out and throw EPCs and all the lights the moment you move the car.

Meanwhile VW made it so you'll get alerts/sounds every few minutes if you had low windshield washer fluid, or if the outside temperature reaches below 39F... You'd think they'd do the same for low haldex/transmission fluid

Hope they get you sorted. Service nightmare right there...

Haldex failures never throw codes from the threads I've seen with people having failures. Evidently nothing in there is being electronically monitored by the car.

 

[golfdave]

There are still two different oils, two different oil "areas", etc..

Haldex unit has its own oil for the pump to activate the clutches....the "finaldrive" box is a separate unit after the Haldex…& this other unit has its own oil & drain plugs...

AWD on the Golfs have always had this..& still people mess it up...the VW manuals are specific.

I recon he bodged the "Finaldrive" box....& not the Haldex...as the haldex requires pressure build up of the oil through the pump to activate the clutches...no oil or little oil to pressure the clutchs will deactivate the haldex & the rear wheels will still rotate, but under their own steam..


Rear wheels locked is the "finaldrive" box welding itself together...this is the box which has the single output shaft of the haldex feeding into it, then two output shafts, one to each axle...basically splits the drive from the haldex to the two wheels...& is a mechanical gearbox, no electronics..



I bet the thick sh1te mechanic drained the final drive box & filled the haldex box...thinking it was all one unit.bet the haldex is overfilled....

I have the whole VW workshop books..& they are very clear on procedure, description...just thick sh1te mechanics who can't read/don't care...

Just for clarity here is the ETKA page for the Haldex unit:-

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/golf+variant+4motion/golf/2016-746/5/525-525015/#20

Item 20
G 060175A2
high-performance oil for haldex coupling
filling quantity:
655ML

Final Drive oil Item 1A:-
https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/golf+variant+4motion/golf/2016-746/5/525-525010/#1A
G 052145A1
axle oil
for final drive
0.5ltr.

 

[gregozedobe]

golfdave describess a very plausible explanation for this failure.

Another factor is that a Golf R is essentially FWD unless the electronic brain decides some RWD is called for. So if you have been driving gently most of the time (rather than flinging the car at speed around tight corners or doing hard take-offs) the Haldex RWD system may have been doing nothing at all, so no Haldex activation to uncover the problem that has been there all along since the service.

 

[Finglonga]

golfdave describess a very plausible explanation for this failure.

Another factor is that a Golf R is essentially FWD unless the electronic brain decides some RWD is called for. So if you have been driving gently most of the time (rather than flinging the car at speed around tight corners or doing hard take-offs) the Haldex RWD system may have been doing nothing at all, so no Haldex activation to uncover the problem that has been there all along since the service.

The rear drive shafts are still spinning though and without lubrication on the inner bearings they would seize sooner than later.

 

[Wild Hare]

If the dealership missed up this bad... they should be pulling a used car off the lot for you to drive NOW rather than pussy foot around waiting for a smelly rental!

 

[golfdave]

The rear drive shafts are still spinning though and without lubrication on the inner bearings they would seize sooner than later.

I think that the poster you quoted was trying to get across is that as the Haldex was ok & the rear diff was drained as per my theory then there would be no indication to the electronics on the Haldex unit..& thus no fault codes etc until the diff welds itself together due to lack of oil..


The fact that the OP stats "one or both rear wheels locked up"...is defo the "final drive unit"..or rear diff which is after the Haldex unit....

If the Haldex unit had been drained of its oil then the oil pump for it would not have been able to pump enough to get correct pressure to activate the unit..then fault codes like mad....& the car would remain a 2WD car...& the Haldex would be deactivated...no nasty exotic smells etc as stated by the OP...

so the oil has been drained in the final drive unit...


looking at the VW books on it, there is no drain procedure for the Final drive unit...just remove plug & oil level is correct when level with plug...top up if it is not....one plug only, NOT remove lower & drain..& fill via top etc...


Haldex unit oil change has two oil plugs, one top for fill, one bottom for drain....undo bottom, drain, tighten, undo top & fill unit until it runs out of top hole...


I'm struggling to figure out what the mechanic did as lets say he did the Haldex drain & forgot to re-fill...& never touched the final drive unit...the Haldex will not lock up as there is no haldex oil, as this is required for the pump the press this oil against the piston to compress the clutch's to lock it up & send power to the rear.....so if the Haldex fails you get 2wd & the rear wheels will not lock up...

double safety...

also every time the car is driven the Haldex performs a pressure reset & vent & calibrates the unit from 0 bar to 44bar...(according to the self study guide on it)..so loads of fault codes if no Haldex oil...



IMHO the mechanic must have used a sucking pump to suck out all the final drive oil as no "drain plug"...& then refitted the plug....& "thought" by filling more oil into the top Haldex unit plug that would do the Halex oil change....


Haldex drain (every 3yrs) by the service book is a different item & not to be confused with "final drive unit" oil check...


On a final note there is also the front bevel box oil...which has its own oil & drain plugs..di he drain this?..I would have thought if he did it would have locked up sooner as this is always rotating the cardan shaft,..the Haldex unit decides to allow the drive to the rear wheels...so the cardan shaft is always rotating...

So you have:-
Main front gearbox oil for gears
Bevel box oil for gears (which transfers power from gearbox to prop/cardan shaft to rear)
Haldex unit, oil
Final drive oil for gears (transfers power from Haldex to each rear wheel)

 

[KevinC]

Thanks for your insights Golfdave. Perhaps it's NOT the Haldex unit at all and IS the final drive that's FUBAR? I'm getting my info 2nd hand from an SA. I'll get more clarity this afternoon or Monday.

Still no call about finding me a rental. I've been super-polite and composed so far in dealing with this SA at the offending dealership. I'm not going to be as polite when I speak to him next, if he doesn't have some kind of good news for me. I am able to get by without my car, so it's not a critical situation for me, but that's not the point, is it? When this all comes to a head, I will be requesting compensation for however many days I am without a car, and right now we're at a full week and counting.

 

[The Fed]

Thanks for your insights Golfdave. Perhaps it's NOT the Haldex unit at all and IS the final drive that's FUBAR? I'm getting my info 2nd hand from an SA. I'll get more clarity this afternoon or Monday.

Still no call about finding me a rental. I've been super-polite and composed so far in dealing with this SA at the offending dealership. I'm not going to be as polite when I speak to him next, if he doesn't have some kind of good news for me. I am able to get by without my car, so it's not a critical situation for me, but that's not the point, is it? When this all comes to a head, I will be requesting compensation for however many days I am without a car, and right now we're at a full week and counting.

That's what I was getting to - since the Haldex pump pressurizes and maintains 550 PSI at the solenoid valve that opens to push the piston that closes the clutch pack assembly, there's no way it will work without oil. There's more than enough power to easily spin the front wheels, which is hard to do stock. Now that I read the OP again, I also think it was the rear differential that failed.

 

[NCM]

Haldex unit oil change has two oil plugs, one top for fill, one bottom for drain....undo bottom, drain, tighten, undo top & fill unit until it runs out of top hole...

Note that you always, always, remove the fill plug first. Otherwise if you drain the oil and then can’t get the fill plug off you’re totally screwed.

the Haldex will not lock up as the clutch's are not in the haldex oil, as this is just for the pump the press this oil against the piston to compress the clutch's to lock it up & send power to the rear

The Haldex diagrams show a wet multi-plate clutch pack running in the oil. That’s how clutch wear residue gets to the pump intake screen and blocks it.

Neil

 

[KevinC]

They're finally putting me in a rental from Enterprise today. I'm sure it will be some run down Ford Focus with 48k miles of brutal abuse that smells like a cross between stale Pall Malls and a camel's ass, but hey, at least it's on their nickel.

Monday both service managers will return and talk to each other. These clowns had better get this resolved quickly and get the damn parts in and get the car fixed. I'm already a week into this nightmare. Hopefully the tech who caused all this has been fired at some point and now works at Jiffy Lube, inflating customers' tires to 70 psi, underfilling their motor oil, and forgetting to put the cap back on. Would probably earn Employee of the Month there.

 

[vj123]

They're finally putting me in a rental from Enterprise today. I'm sure it will be some run down Ford Focus with 48k miles of brutal abuse that smells like a cross between stale Pall Malls and a camel's ass, but hey, at least it's on their nickel.

Most rentals have low mileage cars these days. I have even had brand new ones in the recent past. Also this case, they can sell those vehicles once they hit a certain mileage (say 20 - 25k miles) as a used vehicle.

 

[golfdave]

The Haldex diagrams show a wet multi-plate clutch pack running in the oil. That’s how clutch wear residue gets to the pump intake screen and blocks it.

Neil

You're right.....I got confused........as the VAG books on gen 4 & gen 5 Haldex don't mention its wet plate & I always understood them to be wet plate...& was too tired to think straight..sorry…& thanks for politely correcting!

All they mention is oil sumps & they go into great detail on the pressure build up & "ramp" curve etc to actuating the clutch pack & the pressure regulation etc...but no mention "these are in the same oil"..

The VAG book on the Gen 4 Haldex is way more detailed than the info on Gen5....BTW

 

[KevinC]

Most rentals have low mileage cars these days. I have even had brand new ones in the recent past. Also this case, they can sell those vehicles once they hit a certain mileage (say 20 - 25k miles) as a used vehicle.

Hertz? Maybe. Apparently you've never rented from Enterprise.
The few times I've previously rented from Enterprise, they were ALWAYS high-mileage (for a rental) beaters with smoked-out interiors and various parts and pieces falling off or already missing.

I lucked out - they stuck me in a nondescript Camry with "only" 24k miles on it, and it's even properly aligned and tracks straight - something that few rentals ever seem to do in my experience.

 

[vj123]

Hertz? Maybe. Apparently you've never rented from Enterprise. [emoji3]

The few times I've previously rented from Enterprise, they were ALWAYS high-mileage (for a rental) beaters with smoked-out interiors and various parts and pieces falling off or already missing.

I lucked out - they stuck me in a nondescript Camry with "only" 24k miles on it, and it's even properly aligned and tracks straight - something that few rentals ever seem to do in my experience.

I have been using National & Hertz and rent from a nearby airport. This way there will be several options to choose from.