Crank walk / class action (we need to get together)

[Ridebjj]

Yes. Remove the oil pan, remove the windage tray and you can pull the bearing to inspect or replace from below. A few people on the Facebook groups have done it, some found increased wear and swapped in a new bearings.

No kidding. Link to diy or write ups?

 

[RichardCranium]

You guys are going to have an uphill battle considering it's aftermarket parts causing the problem.

 

[nonegiven]

You guys are going to have an uphill battle considering it's aftermarket parts causing the problem.

Someone didn't read the entire thread.

 

[GTIfan99]

Not supposed to is not the same thing as was designed to. If the car stock can handle its rated performance levels with normal failure rates, its not really the fault of the manufacturer that it starts to fail as soon as people upgrade it. Some engines through the years have been designed to be very upgrade friendly through specific design choices or just being over-built in general. You find that a lot in diesel engines and many older blocks that were just built like brick shit houses cause it was easier to overbuild than not.

The crankwalk issue that the EA888 apparently has in some areas is the 180-degree thrust bearing (which is a very common design these days) isn't as strong for upgraded clutches as past 360-degree bearings. Some failures are sprinkled in on stock cars, but if you look at the entire production versus those stock cars, its barely a blip. Manufacturing flaws could easily encompass those, and be totally normal versus like model vehicles.

I think the tuning market in general is focusing their energy in the wrong area. Crankwalk is a problem on upgraded clutches, the issue is a small bearing, not a faulty bearing. Performance junkies will spend countless dollars on upgraded parts, sweet looking exhaust systems, ECU tunes, etc etc... why not budget to include machine shop time to machine a full diameter bearing? The problem has been solved for the most part by many independent outfits as we've seen linked to across the various threads. Machine a bearing cap, include a larger or additional thrust washer, reinstall. A sub $500 solution is already out there, which a competent machine shop could handle. If the aftermarket sees this as a large enough opportunity, maybe someone should start a commercial process of upgrading existing crank bearing caps (ship yours in, they machine it and ship it back).

These are the same guys that swap in metal oil pans vs plastic, upgrade turbos, hell... upgrade the clutch itself in the first place. Why can't they also account for an upgraded bearing in the process?

It sounds like you're saying the 360 deg bearing from previous versions of this engine work with this engine and the bearing cap just needs to be machined to work with it. Do you have any links to shops that have done it? I have no issue spending more money when I do my clutch to mitigate this issue.

 

[tigeo]

Are these on modified/tuned cars? If so, GTFO. If it's for the unmodified ones, then there is a convo.

 

[dietcokefiend]

No kidding. Link to diy or write ups?

These were mentioned on Facebook... outside of screenshots there is no way to link to it. Most of it was literally pictures of a dudes bearing in his hand and saying they did it. Its not difficult stuff, but again it does require some universal skill to dive into an engine's internals.

It sounds like you're saying the 360 deg bearing from previous versions of this engine work with this engine and the bearing cap just needs to be machined to work with it. Do you have any links to shops that have done it? I have no issue spending more money when I do my clutch to mitigate this issue.

Some of the build threads have mentioned it, one was linked to a page or two ago in this thread.

 

[dietcokefiend]

Are these on modified/tuned cars? If so, GTFO. If it's for the unmodified ones, then there is a convo.

Pretty much, the failure rate for unmodified cars in the polling were super low. Very much in the normal defect range and probably higher stressed since if you have a bearing crap itself and get a new engine, you are probably going to comment on it online.

 

[tigeo]

Pretty much, the failure rate for unmodified cars in the polling were super low. Very much in the normal defect range and probably higher stressed since if you have a bearing crap itself and get a new engine, you are probably going to comment on it online.

So tune the manual car, go with a big clutch, crank walk...yeah....we got this!

 

[dietcokefiend]

So tune the manual car, go with a big clutch, crank walk...yeah....we got this!

Or upgrade the bearing too? Or go for the DSG... its not a problem without different solutions. But unlike the stalling or the thermostat issue, its not really a high percentage problem on stock cars. Its only linked to the aftermarket clutches that had like a 2-3x clamping force over stock. I'm not sure things like the TTRS clutch upgrade kit would run into the same problem or others who use different friction material vs clamping force to hold higher HP would kill it faster. That one clutch (Southbend?) was linked to almost all the early crankwalk failures.

 

[kak]

Its been a while since I went down the path of the 4g63 issue, but I seem to recall that problem was a number of issues. Too little oilflow to the main bearings, some blocked passages found during teardowns, sloppy thrust bearing machining. Lots of weird things people were trying to fix to get it in working order.

4G63 had many issues. If you made it to crank walk, congrats.

 

[Corprin]

Is it too early to bring up oil viscosity?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Hoon]

Thanks for the laugh guys

 

[cb1111]

To put this stuff in perspective, look at my stalling thread and the main highlights.

1. I had a huge grass roots awareness campaign that came about right as the 2019 GTI picked up steam.
2. Replies to the thread here and Reddit were insane... thousands and thousands of replies.
3. Cases were persued at many dealers, attempts were made to repair and lots of informal and formal discussion on the topic from car owners and dealers alike.
4. I got 150+ tracked complaints submitted to the NHTSA. All publicly visible.
5. I submitted a huge petition for defect investigation letter and got the federal gears turning myself.

All that might sound cocky and awesome, but at the end of the day zero... and I mean zero law firms cared. The group was too small, even if it was all 2019 GTIs produced. Compare that to a Camry or something, which probably sells more in a month or even week than the GTI sells in a year and you get the picture. This crankwalk affected owners pool is even smaller. My biggest moment of awareness was just getting an idea of how no one really cared lol.

Get complaints submitted, see if you can move the needle. I wish this wasn't so negative sounding, but to be honest the same guys running the Facebook poll were the ones that didn't care 1% of the stalling issue. I reached out to them to build awareness, they didn't really care. The door swings both ways, but now that it is apparently hitting them they want the community to rally behind them. It's even trickier when you throw the aftermarket parts situation, where most of the stalling guys were arguing about if 5w40 oil could cause warranties to be voided. Most, if not the entire pool of crankwalk cars are heavily modified and tuned. The upgrade clutch and pressure plate, which puts an insane amount of force on the bearing over stock is the root of the issue for most.

Lastly, as much as I would like to help this or the coolant leak issue (my Passat even has that problem), no one wants to go that NHTSA complaint step to push the issue formally to a head to have evidence that a petition can use to try to start something.

The companies selling the aftermarket clutches that seem to be having this problem will look pretty foolish when they are the ones being the defendants.

If the problem affected cars with or without mods equally, then you might be able to make an argument that this is a manufacturer's defect. In this case though, the problem appears to affect mainly cars that are modified, then the fault lies squarely with those manufacturers that are making the mods.

VW cannot be blamed for designing a car that works well with all OE parts, but breaks with "performance" parts. Even the oft touted Magnusson Moss Warranty Act clearly discusses only "substantially similar" aftermarket parts (i.e. it is OK to swap an OE Osram bulb for the same design Bosch or Sylvania bulb). By definition, a performance part is not substantially similar to the OE part as it is intended to increase performance - not keep it the same.

By increasing performance, you are essentially thumbing your nose at the manufacturer by saying "you should have built your car to be able to handle more performance". That won't fly in court.

But - each individual owner can certainly sue the aftermarket manufacturer of the product that damaged their car. But wait, you say, the warranty doesn't allow for that.... and neither does VW's.

You pay to play. Suck it up.

Start another poll limited to owners of unmodified cars. If there is a significant number of owners with crankwalk, then - and only then - can you begin to talk class action.

 

[A7xogg]

Or upgrade the bearing too? Or go for the DSG... its not a problem without different solutions. But unlike the stalling or the thermostat issue, its not really a high percentage problem on stock cars. Its only linked to the aftermarket clutches that had like a 2-3x clamping force over stock. I'm not sure things like the TTRS clutch upgrade kit would run into the same problem or others who use different friction material vs clamping force to hold higher HP would kill it faster. That one clutch (Southbend?) was linked to almost all the early crankwalk failures.

Only failures I've seen with dmf clutch setups is bone stock cars. I'm sure a few are out there but it's a very low percentage compared to smf clutch setups

 

[cb1111]

Is it too early to bring up oil viscosity?

Asking for a friend.

Nope, never too early to bring up oil viscosity. I think there is a detailing thread somewhere where you can raise it too. Oil viscosity ALWAYS is the right thing to bring up.