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Clutchless ignition update: solved (maybe)

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
In a previous thread the possibility of starting the car without the clutch in by using magnets was being discussed.

After a lot of experimentation, it seemed using an electromagnet would be impossible. They don't generate enough of a field to trick the clutch pedal sensors in that tiny spot.

Someone put forth the idea of using a solenoid to move neodymium magnets into place.

After much experimentation in the last 24 hours, it *seems* like this is viable for about $100.



I've tested it about 50 times in a row with the current config. No errors, no codes, no mis-starts. No issue with cruise control or anything else, thus far.

I haven't fully buttoned it up yet, because I want to see how it fairs over the next few days of real world use.

I can do a build breakdown, but I have to say, this install really sucked. Not sure it was worth it to be honest, but I am ocd about problem solving, so here we are.
 
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A7xogg

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Milford pa
If it keeps ur engine from ruining itself, it's worth it. I haven't even tried to wire up and test my electric magnet I bought I've just been using my magnet stick.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
Those little neodymium magnets are very strong, and I think just as importantly, orient the field in the exact right way to trip the sensors. I tried 3 different electromagnets from small to pretty big and none of them came close to working.

If you can figure it out, you're a better man than I.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
I don't understand the point in doing that.
Some people think cold starts with the clutch in exacerbates the thrust bearings going bad and ending up with crank walk. Especially with upgraded clutches using stronger pressure plates.

Being able to start the car without the clutch pressed would possibly mitigate that, if it's true.

I can't say if it is true, though it makes some sense. I mostly just wanted to see if it could be done.

Edit: and for another 20 bucks, it could be used as a ghetto remote start system.
 
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jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Ride
2018 SE DSG
Some people think cold starts with the clutch in exacerbates the thrust bearings going bad and ending up with crank walk. Especially with upgraded clutches using stronger pressure plates.

Being able to start the car without the clutch pressed would possibly mitigate that, if it's true.

I can't say if it is true, though it makes some sense. I mostly just wanted to see if it could be done.
Thanks for the explanation.
 

JerseyDrew77

Autocross Newbie
Location
Virginia & NC
Some people think cold starts with the clutch in exacerbates the thrust bearings going bad and ending up with crank walk. Especially with upgraded clutches using stronger pressure plates.

Being able to start the car without the clutch pressed would possibly mitigate that, if it's true.

I can't say if it is true, though it makes some sense. I mostly just wanted to see if it could be done.

Edit: and for another 20 bucks, it could be used as a ghetto remote start system.
I would think/hope that if it is true, VW would address the issue and come up with a solution BUT I don't think the issue is big enough for VW to look in to it. Like you said, it's just a theory right now.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
Quick update - have been using this for coming up on 10 days, and the last 7 using for my usual routine (as opposed to just dozens of tests in a row while sitting in the garage). That's on the order of 30 starts as part of normal use, plus 50 or so tests.

Has not yet failed to work. No faults, no codes, etc.

I installed a toggle switch in the cubby box to disable the whole thing - so that you can do a normal press of the start button without the car turning over.

If this is helping fend off crank walk, I could not say. But it is nice to be able to start the car at 6am by just sticking my arm in.

Will update again at one month, or if something new happens - like an explosion.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
If someone else wants to give this a go, here's a quick rundown of the major parts you will need:

Solenoid with an available 1+ inch of stroke ($25)

Spring return kit ($15)

Timer delay logic module, for turning it off after car starts ($20) - optional, you can also just use a button)

Solenoid mount - I had it printed in steel, in case it needed a little bending (it didn't), by shapeway for $25. Composite is cheaper.

Other small parts needed include the magnets, wire, m3 size screws with nuts (non magnetic aluminum works best), glue such as E-8000, add-a-circuit fuse replacement, etc.
Having vcds / obd11 probably isn't mandatory, but it helps.

Can update again with more specific diy as time allows.
 
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MeltedSolid

Drag Race Newbie
Location
SF Bay Area/New Mexico
Ride
2015 Golf, e36 328i
I'm probably missing most of the relevant conversation, but why is it important for the magnet to be removed from the sensor? What would happen if you just left it there?
 

sterkrazzy

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
Ride
2018 R
I wouldn't mind having this set up on my car, but I'm an idiot and would need either need a detailed write up or someone to do it for me lol

I'll be following this.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
I'm probably missing most of the relevant conversation, but why is it important for the magnet to be removed from the sensor? What would happen if you just left it there?
Other people from before I took up the task determined that It will throw errors / codes, eventually will fail to work unless you remove the magnet and clear the codes and even when it does work, things like the cruise control or anything else that depends on the clutch position sensors will get fubared from the ecu thinking the clutch is fully depressed 100% of the time.
 

95b14

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
845 NY
Appreciate the parts list, I may still give this a go when I have more time. I’ll have to find someone that does 3D printing. Thanks for putting the time in to come up with a good solution. I miss the simplicity of cutting the plug and butt connecting the wires for the switch in my old SE-R.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
Here's a close up of the mount. I tried to think of a way where everything could remain stock, but in the end it made the most sense to drill 2 small holes (3mm) in the clutch pedal housing.

0127202044_HDR_copy_600x800.jpg
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
Update: after nearly a month and 150+ starts, the only time it didn't work was after the cheap glue I used to hold the magnet on gave up the ghost and it fell off. Repaired with stronger bond.

Still no codes, faults, lights.

I'm calling this a success.

I'll try to make a more detailed diy in the coming days.
 

El_bigote_AJ

Go Kart Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Ride
2019 GTI bunny
Update: after nearly a month and 150+ starts, the only time it didn't work was after the cheap glue I used to hold the magnet on gave up the ghost and it fell off. Repaired with stronger bond.

Still no codes, faults, lights.

I'm calling this a success.

I'll try to make a more detailed diy in the coming days.
haha, i was just gonna text you. what part of the VCDS/obd11 aspect helps?
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
haha, i was just gonna text you. what part of the VCDS/obd11 aspect helps?
SELECT 03 Abs Brakes > adv measuring values > then type "clutch" into the search and select both the results. One monitors the slightly pressed position and the other monitors the full press. Both have to be triggered for no error starts and then both have to be deactivated after starting.

Push the clutch in and watch the screen and youll see which is which.
 
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