Can someone explain APR's AMAX mode please?

[Keehs360]

I get what amax is and how it works. But how does APR implement it into its dsg tune? Is amax only active from launch to first? Or will it continue to work in each upshift until I let off the gas?

I called APR and the gentleman I spoke to did not seem to know what I was talking about.

after a launch it seems like the dsg "farts" are gone and I wonder if that's a sign of amax doing its thing until I let off the gas. when I am doing (for example) 30mph in s mode, there's dsg farts. so I wonder if that's a way of knowing if amax is active or not. thing is, before flashing to stage 1 and dsg tune the car behaved the same. launching didn't get farts. while rolling did.

 

[Razgriz337]

AMAX is only active during, and following launch control. You'll notice the car no longer does a full torque cut in between gears and will sound more like a traditional automatic sliding into the next gear.

You will have to keep your foot in it, as coming off 100% pedal following the launch will exit AMAX mode and return to a regular shift strategy.

 

[Keehs360]

AMAX is only active during, and following launch control. You'll notice the car no longer does a full torque cut in between gears and will sound more like a traditional automatic sliding into the next gear.

You will have to keep your foot in it, as coming off 100% pedal following the launch will exit AMAX mode and return to a regular shift strategy.

Thanks for the info! So amax works from launch till I let off my foot? I thought it would shut off amax after second or third. Thanks!

 

[launchd]

Most of the information below was direct from APR... and yes, when you let go of the throttle during launch control, AMAX is cut off.

AMAX (acceleration maximum) is present from the factory and is specific to the DSG transmissions. AMAX becomes active only during launch control on these vehicles (because launch control is very controlled, no pun intended). AMAX utilizes both clutches simultaneously and slips between the gears with VERY LITTLE room for error.

A normal DSG shift (AMAX not active) de-rates the engine by telling the ECU to pull timing. It does this for two reasons during a shift, it's preventing the engine from free-revving and it is also lowering the applied torque to the clutches. This engine de-rate happens while the DSG transmission is opening one clutch and closing the other. Then, after this transition completes, the TCU immediately tells the ECU to bring back the power. This de-rate timing retard during a shift is what causes the DSG farts (depends on other driving variables as well).

When using AMAX (during launch control), the TCU tells the ECU to keep the power consistent the entire time, there is no de-rate requested at all. AMAX (TCU talking to the ECU) controls the engine RPM by having both clutches engaged together in the linear (slip) region while the DSG transmission transitions between the two. The benefit of this is that the engine makes full power the entire time and is transferring it through the drive train, to the ground, even during a shift. The downside is that it's extremely delicate. If the transition time is too fast during a shift, the clutches won't slip enough, will be working against each other and will rip themselves out of the transmission. If the transition time is too slow, the engine will free rev, hit the limiter and de-rate via the rev limiter with the power only coming back once a clutch completes a close.

Fun fact, there was actually an AMAX counter on some Audis (I'm not sure about Volkswagen) that would prevent AMAX from being used if the counter reached it's set limit. This is because you are actually wearing the DSG clutches A LOT more using AMAX shifting vs. standard shifting since both clutches remain engaged while the car slips between it's gears.

APR, in certain tunes, accounted for the factory AMAX and claimed to make it better with their power gains. I say claimed because I personally do not know if this is true and I don't want to state facts I'm unsure of.

 

[Hoon]

Lol, this is OEM strategy, APR is just as advertising it as a "feature".

IMO it's an idiotic strategy. I'd rather my car run .01 slower in the 1/4 than kill the clutches in 1/2 the time.

 

[launchd]

Lol, this is OEM strategy, APR is just as advertising it as a "feature".

IMO it's an idiotic strategy. I'd rather my car run .01 slower in the 1/4 than kill the clutches in 1/2 the time.

I fail to see how it's an OEM "strategy" when it adds to the performance of the car. Without AMAX the DSG transmission already has a significant advantage over a manual transmission on the drag strip, thats a given (it's why any platform that has a DSG, has the DSG variant holding the record... hell even a MK2 was fitted with a DSG and holds the record on that platform). Add AMAX and the manual transmission becomes an even bigger joke when you're talking about setting records and it certainly adds to the already capable DSG. Sure, if you don't mind your car being the slower of the two transmission options or you don't care about squeezing everything you can out of the DSG, then I guess it doesn't matter.

Also...

DSG transmission with normal operation will see (on average) 150,000 miles on their clutches before replacement
Manual transmission with normal operation will see (on average) 70,000 miles on their clutch before replacement

Ride your DSG transmission clutches which is a lot harder to do outside of one scenario (launch control), replace them early (you say half the time, 75,000 miles?)
Ride your manual transmission clutch which is a lot easier to do in almost any scenario, replace it early (I'll say way more than half the time and give you a benefit here, 50,000 miles?)

Manual transmission still loses in this aspect too...

If you're not trying to set records, don't use launch control - I never do. It's nice to have the option though.

 

[Hoon]

I fail to see how it's an OEM "strategy"

Because the car does the same thing stock, on Cobb, and I'm sure a variety of other DSG tunes. This isnt something new APR came up with, it's just their usual marketing BS.

Also, higher powered APR TCU cars (especially AWD/slicks and GTI/A3 gearing) are killing a set of clutches in 50-60 passes. Thats not a long life.

 

[launchd]

Because the car does the same thing stock, on Cobb, and I'm sure a variety of other DSG tunes. This isnt something new APR came up with, it's just their usual marketing BS.

Also, higher powered APR TCU cars (especially AWD/slicks and GTI/A3 gearing) are killing a set of clutches in 50-60 passes. Thats not a long life.

Sorry, I took your comment to mean that AMAX was an OEM (Volkswagen) strategy that was stupid. I agree that APR should not be talking about it like they reinvented it if they've done nothing to alter its performance.

What APR tuned cars are killing DSG clutches? I've never seen proof of this, only people claiming it on this forum ... care to provide proof?

I bet if you do dig up ANY examples, those cars are stage 3+ and are using the stock clutches. If so, at least they can get 50-60 passes with stock clutches at stage 3+ power ... same couldn't be said for a manual.

Edit: APR uses this kind of marketing all the time, they like to make their brand look better than it is every chance they get. No argument from me here.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

I use launch control at most autocross events. I used to worry about the damage, but now I just send it.

 

[Keehs360]

Most of the information below was direct from APR... and yes, when you let go of the throttle during launch control, AMAX is cut off.

AMAX (acceleration maximum) is present from the factory and is specific to the DSG transmissions. AMAX becomes active only during launch control on these vehicles (because launch control is very controlled, no pun intended). AMAX utilizes both clutches simultaneously and slips between the gears with VERY LITTLE room for error.

A normal DSG shift (AMAX not active) de-rates the engine by telling the ECU to pull timing. It does this for two reasons during a shift, it's preventing the engine from free-revving and it is also lowering the applied torque to the clutches. This engine de-rate happens while the DSG transmission is opening one clutch and closing the other. Then, after this transition completes, the TCU immediately tells the ECU to bring back the power. This de-rate timing retard during a shift is what causes the DSG farts (depends on other driving variables as well).

When using AMAX (during launch control), the TCU tells the ECU to keep the power consistent the entire time, there is no de-rate requested at all. AMAX (TCU talking to the ECU) controls the engine RPM by having both clutches engaged together in the linear (slip) region while the DSG transmission transitions between the two. The benefit of this is that the engine makes full power the entire time and is transferring it through the drive train, to the ground, even during a shift. The downside is that it's extremely delicate. If the transition time is too fast during a shift, the clutches won't slip enough, will be working against each other and will rip themselves out of the transmission. If the transition time is too slow, the engine will free rev, hit the limiter and de-rate via the rev limiter with the power only coming back once a clutch completes a close.

Fun fact, there was actually an AMAX counter on some Audis (I'm not sure about Volkswagen) that would prevent AMAX from being used if the counter reached it's set limit. This is because you are actually wearing the DSG clutches A LOT more using AMAX shifting vs. standard shifting since both clutches remain engaged while the car slips between it's gears.

APR, in certain tunes, accounted for the factory AMAX and claimed to make it better with their power gains. I say claimed because I personally do not know if this is true and I don't want to state facts I'm unsure of.

Thnx for the info.

 

[Keehs360]

I use launch control at most autocross events. I used to worry about the damage, but now I just send it.

I’ve seen gti’s at the drag strip not even using launch control. I guess this is why. They’re purposely not allowing amax to cut on.