APR Ultralink - At Home Flash Tuning is Here!

[cb1111]

Kind of seems like APR is making a big deal about being able to reset the flash counter which is a non-issue for every other software/hardware developer on this platform.

Perhaps APR should advertise other useless features like being able to use their device as a coaster, makeshift frisbee or a chew toy for small dogs.

I think what they are saying is that you can reflash a gazillion times with their technology.

The problem is, that most consumers won't reflash more than once or twice - maybe a handful of times and that number is clearly well under any limit (if there even is a set limit that any normal person might reach).

Companies will advertise anything to set themselves apart from other companies - and will try to skirt the issue that they are producing a product that might blow up your car.

 

[PerceivedShift]

Why is he dancing around this? Because we are stupid consumers and will take things at face value - "Ohhhh, cool, I don't need to worry about a TD-1 anymore because Arin has worked magic" - until VW denies a claim and then it'll be "we never really said that."

I don't know why these guys (and this pertains to the industry - not Arin directly) feel that they have play these games rather than explain what a TD-1 (and the transmission equivalent) is, what it really means and what the possible pitfalls are of modding the car.

I'd be far more impressed (and more likely to buy) if a company came out and said "these are the benefits, these are the downsides (need higher octane gas etc.) and these are the possible problems you might run into.

They could then go on to talk about the chances of running into a problem (of the xxxxx claims we know about, xx have been denied by VW) and discuss what steps they have taken not to hide their mod, but to make their product safer.

But what the hell do I know, I just come from the regulatory side....

I don't care about removing TD-1, or VW hiding something, all I care about is know if this reset counter will brick the ECU and exactly what number that is. If its an 8 bit register that number is 255, if its a 16bit register that number is 65,535. Obviously, I think we both know which makes more sense if in fact this is an issue.

 

[cb1111]

I don't care about removing TD-1, or VW hiding something, all I care about is know if this reset counter will brick the ECU and exactly what number that is. If its an 8 bit register that number is 255, if its a 16bit register that number is 65,535. Obviously, I think we both know which makes more sense if in fact this is an issue.

I think it is unlikely that anybody outside of VW knows - although, like you, they can guess based on the register.

Does every car have the same limit?
Does VW have the ability to modify the limit?
In how many places is the number stored?
Can that number actually be rolled back - or just kept from going up?
What happens if VW flashes the car?

Does anybody know? Of course not.

 

[Cuzoe]

No dog in this fight, not using APR on my TDI... but peering in it sounds like there is a flash counter with a limit (that when reached will be a problem) and their tool can reset that counter. At the same time VW has other ways that may or may not include that counter to know if the ECU has been flashed.

I don't know how reasonable it is for anyone to flash and think there is a guaranteed way to hide that from VW, thus avoiding any warranty repercussions that come with it. Even if VW only looked at the counter that the tool can reset... are people taking note of their flash counter when they get the car, then when using the tool resetting to 1 (I assume) then flashing multiple times to match that number (assuming it's not 1)?

 

[PerceivedShift]

No dog in this fight, not using APR on my TDI... but peering in it sounds like there is a flash counter with a limit (that when reached will be a problem) and their tool can reset that counter. At the same time VW has other ways that may or may not include that counter to know if the ECU has been flashed.

I don't know how reasonable it is for anyone to flash and think there is a guaranteed way to hide that from VW, thus avoiding any warranty repercussions that come with it. Even if VW only looked at the counter that the tool can reset... are people taking note of their flash counter when they get the car, then when using the tool resetting to 1 (I assume) then flashing multiple times to match that number (assuming it's not 1)?

We’ve known for a while there is no way to hide a flash tune from VW, what is new, is the claim that simply flashing your ecu to many times will BRICK it. Thats new, and a big claim requires big evidence. Not a “trust me bro, only our dongle will not brick your ECU”.

 

[Diggs24]

What I think is funny is that anyone flashing OTS APR files would ever remotely come close to this limit. Like what, you wake up every morning and be like "yo dawg ima try out the 91 low trq file today. then tomorrow hi tq, then low tq." and back and forth for years?

 

[Cuzoe]

If we assume, based on the hundreds of flashes some of you Open Source Tuning crazies/geniuses have flashed, that no one not in development is going to reach the limit... does it matter?

Or are we just mad because APR mentions resetting a flash counter that we didn't know "needed" to be reset (I'm assuming we take that claim at face value) but that will also not be an issue for us.

Seems like a "I don't drink coffee but they didn't offer it to me and I need to know why" kind of complaint.
Or are folks alleging they might consider buying this tool for the "flash counter reset" feature?

 

[Arin@APR]

all I care about is know if this reset counter will brick the ECU and exactly what number that is.

Correct.

 

[Arin@APR]

What I think is funny is that anyone flashing OTS APR files would ever remotely come close to this limit.

Depends on the platform. For example, on MG1 has a 100 flash limit, but each flash counts as 6. That's only 16.6 flashes.

 

[backcountry]

If we assume, based on the hundreds of flashes some of you Open Source Tuning crazies/geniuses have flashed, that no one not in development is going to reach the limit... does it matter?

Or are we just mad because APR mentions resetting a flash counter that we didn't know "needed" to be reset (I'm assuming we take that claim at face value) but that will also not be an issue for us.

Seems like a "I don't drink coffee but they didn't offer it to me and I need to know why" kind of complaint.
Or are folks alleging they might consider buying this tool for the "flash counter reset" feature?

I think we're all asking for APR to back up their claims that this is a necessary feature that none of the other tuning platforms have available to them.

 

[backcountry]

I don't care about removing TD-1, or VW hiding something, all I care about is know if this reset counter will brick the ECU and exactly what number that is. If its an 8 bit register that number is 255, if its a 16bit register that number is 65,535. Obviously, I think we both know which makes more sense if in fact this is an issue.

Correct.

???

Everyone has asked exactly what the number is and APR replies with "correct"?

 

[cb1111]

???

Everyone has asked exactly what the number is and APR replies with "correct"?

yep.

In investigations we always say if the subject doesnt answer the question, then the subject has answered the question.

 

[backcountry]

yep.

In investigations we always say if the subject doesnt answer the question, then the subject has answered the question.

So we are led to believe that APR is either lying about the flash counter bricking ECUs in our cars or that the number is so high as to never be reached by anyone in the real world and they're intentionally misleading potential customers?

 

[Arin@APR]

???

Everyone has asked exactly what the number is and APR replies with "correct"?

I read that as all he cares is it resets the counter so it doesn't brick. That's why I said correct (Agreed).

On Simos 18.x it should be 100.

 

[Nineeightyone]

This information does bring to light a larger discussion about the platform itself though -- if we were to assume that each flash increments the counter by one, and we have a limit of 100 flashes, does that counter increment when flashing to say, a valet tune temporarily? Does unmarrying a device reset the flash counter? These questions aren't specific to APR, but also bring up questions regarding some competitor's devices and methodology, and some features boasted on their platforms.

Personally, I don't generally use the valet/anti-theft tune options on my chosen platform, and they weren't really a consideration when I was shopping. Being able to flash at home definitely makes APR a more attractive option than they were previously, so I'll laud that as a win. The counter thing is interesting and I think raises many questions with regards to tuning as a whole, not just one vendor's platform/method of choice.