APR Ultralink - At Home Flash Tuning is Here!

[Arin@APR]

It's for the DTR6054, so the tune is "included" in the form of a code on a piece of paper to provide to an APR dealership for the software. My car has not been to an APR dealer to be flashed, so it's not recorded in your database...So do I use that code within the market place somewhere to gain access?

Edit for clarity: Yes I technically bought the tune, but I don't see how you would have record of that so I want to confirm I have access bc nothing will come back when the device runs my VIN in your database

Yes. If anything funky happens, call and we'll manually enable it for your account.

 

[Arin@APR]

So the car will still show as TD1 at the dealer and everyone will know that it has been flashed at least once?

People are getting hung up on flash counters. Your car already has a flash count from the factory. It could be 1. It could be 3. All this even if you are still stock. There is no database record of how many flashes your car 'should' have.

 

[The Fed]

Does not Germany know how many times your car was flashed? If not, how do they determine you were tuned and TD1 you?

 

[Arin@APR]

They look at other hidden flags that are not visible to users.

 

[cb1111]

Does not Germany know how many times your car was flashed? If not, how do they determine you were tuned and TD1 you?

Yep. VW in the Fatherland knows exactly how often your car has been tuned - that information is stored in several places, and no aftermarket company can change that.

Once tuned, VW will know - if they have reason to check.

 

[backcountry]

They look at other hidden flags that are not visible to users.

And you're claiming that the APR tool can change those hidden flags and be undetectable by VW so you can't get a TD1?

Curious why APR is leaning so heavily on being able to "reset the flash counter" but then claiming that the flash counter is meaningless.

 

[PerceivedShift]

We reset the flash counter with each flash. So, you won't show 50+ flashes or whatever (depending how much you flash). Also, if we didn't, you'd eventually hit a limiter and brick the ECU.

Ok, we need more info on this Arin, can this counter be reset through OBDEleven or any other means?

If this is true you can't just throw this grenade and run off like that man.

 

[Arin@APR]

And you're claiming that the APR tool can change those hidden flags and be undetectable by VW so you can't get a TD1?

No, we are not making that claim at all.

Curious why APR is leaning so heavily on being able to "reset the flash counter" but then claiming that the flash counter is meaningless.

We aren't. Some of you guy sure are! lol

 

[Arin@APR]

Ok, we need more info on this Arin, can this counter be reset through OBDEleven or any other means?

If this is true you can't just throw this grenade and run off like that man.

No. You need to some special work to reset the flash counter.

Like I said before, if it is not reset, eventually if you flash the ECU enough times, it will brick. We usually hit the limit during development before the counter reset is ever in place, and I just saw a guy in the field who switched to our software hit the limit on a platform that didn't have the reset in place yet. Simply put, there is a limit to the number of flashes you can do, but if you reset the counter, that limit is removed.

 

[cb1111]

They look at other hidden flags that are not visible to users.

Ok, we need more info on this Arin, can this counter be reset through OBDEleven or any other means?

If this is true you can't just throw this grenade and run off like that man.

No, it isn't true and Arin is merely dancing around the issue as he is trying to imply that, but still maintain plausible deniability.

No, we are not making that claim at all.



We aren't. Some of you guy sure are! lol

See...

No. You need to some special work to reset the flash counter.

Like I said before, if it is not reset, eventually if you flash the ECU enough times, it will brick. We usually hit the limit during development before the counter reset is ever in place, and I just saw a guy in the field who switched to our software hit the limit on a platform that didn't have the reset in place yet. Simply put, there is a limit to the number of flashes you can do, but if you reset the counter, that limit is removed.

That isn't really true either, is it?

If, in fact, you flash without increasing the count each time, then the limit is still there, it just isn't reached.

Why don't you focus on explaining what the flag means and when it makes a difference.

Right now - and this is obvious from the comments - you are trying to imply that you've gotten "around" the flag - which is clearly not correct.

 

[PerceivedShift]

No. You need to some special work to reset the flash counter.

Like I said before, if it is not reset, eventually if you flash the ECU enough times, it will brick. We usually hit the limit during development before the counter reset is ever in place, and I just saw a guy in the field who switched to our software hit the limit on a platform that didn't have the reset in place yet. Simply put, there is a limit to the number of flashes you can do, but if you reset the counter, that limit is removed.

I'm not sure why you are dancing around this Arin, do you think you are the only company who flashes their development cars hundreds of times? What about Simos Tools users who have also flashed hundreds of times? If what you are saying is true, I think we would have seen some cautionary posts about this all over the internet by now unless the limit is like 1000 "DON'T FLASH YOUR ECU MORE THAN 200 TIMES OR YOU'LL BRICK IT!" kind of posts. Maybe I've missed them? Surely, you have documented what the limits are with the given ECUs then? May we see this documentation?

If the register which holds the counter must be at least 8 bits, 4 bits would limit to 15 flashes so that is out of the question. An 8 bit register would limit to 255 flashes. (1111 1111)

What kind of special work is needed to reset the flash counter?

 

[Nineeightyone]

No, it isn't true and Arin is merely dancing around the issue as he is trying to imply that, but still maintain plausible deniability.

See...

That isn't really true either, is it?

If, in fact, you flash without increasing the count each time, then the limit is still there, it just isn't reached.

Why don't you focus on explaining what the flag means and when it makes a difference.

Right now - and this is obvious from the comments - you are trying to imply that you've gotten "around" the flag - which is clearly not correct.

I think I follow -- the flash counter lives in a variable (we'll call it int $flashCount), and each time you flash the ECU does $flashCount = $flashCount + 1. Because of the nature of variables, there's a limit to how big of a number can be stored in $flashCount. If you reach that limit, bad things happen.

"But nineeightyone, surely that number is huge, right?" you might say. We, as end users, don't know what the limit is, but just that a limit exists.

 

[cb1111]

I think I follow -- the flash counter lives in a variable (we'll call it int $flashCount), and each time you flash the ECU does $flashCount = $flashCount + 1. Because of the nature of variables, there's a limit to how big of a number can be stored in $flashCount. If you reach that limit, bad things happen.

"But nineeightyone, surely that number is huge, right?" you might say. We, as end users, don't know what the limit is, but just that a limit exists.

Right. And that counter lives in multiple places - which is a simplified way of saying that VW has multiple ways of telling if the ECU has been modified.

 

[backcountry]

• Reset the flash counter with each APR Tune or uninstall APR Software and go back to stock

No, we are not making that claim at all.



We aren't. Some of you guy sure are! lol

Kind of seems like APR is making a big deal about being able to reset the flash counter which is a non-issue for every other software/hardware developer on this platform.

Perhaps APR should advertise other useless features like being able to use their device as a coaster, makeshift frisbee or a chew toy for small dogs.

 

[cb1111]

I'm not sure why you are dancing around this Arin, do you think you are the only company who flashes their development cars hundreds of times? What about Simos Tools users who have also flashed hundreds of times? If what you are saying is true, I think we would have seen some cautionary posts about this all over the internet by now unless the limit is like 1000 "DON'T FLASH YOUR ECU MORE THAN 200 TIMES OR YOU'LL BRICK IT!" kind of posts. Maybe I've missed them? Surely, you have documented what the limits are with the given ECUs then? May we see this documentation?

If the register which holds the counter must be at least 8 bits, 4 bits would limit to 15 flashes so that is out of the question. An 8 bit register would limit to 255 flashes. (1111 1111)

What kind of special work is needed to reset the flash counter?

Why is he dancing around this? Because we are stupid consumers and will take things at face value - "Ohhhh, cool, I don't need to worry about a TD-1 anymore because Arin has worked magic" - until VW denies a claim and then it'll be "we never really said that."

I don't know why these guys (and this pertains to the industry - not Arin directly) feel that they have play these games rather than explain what a TD-1 (and the transmission equivalent) is, what it really means and what the possible pitfalls are of modding the car.

I'd be far more impressed (and more likely to buy) if a company came out and said "these are the benefits, these are the downsides (need higher octane gas etc.) and these are the possible problems you might run into.

They could then go on to talk about the chances of running into a problem (of the xxxxx claims we know about, xx have been denied by VW) and discuss what steps they have taken not to hide their mod, but to make their product safer.

But what the hell do I know, I just come from the regulatory side....