0W-20 VW 508/508 oil analysis/comparison

[Jeffs2013GTI]

It's not about thinking VW doesn't know what they are talking about or not believing the sticker under the hood or owner's manual w/r to the approvals required of the oil ran in your car. It's a lot of folks doing independent research on oil spedificaitons including HTHS etc. and seeing that the new VW508 00 oils (that are all 0W20) may not provide the best protection under more servere conditions as either the older VW502 00 oils (mostly 5W40) and the newer VW504 00 oils (mostly 5W30s and always backwards compatible with VW502 00). The engine itself hasn't changed, only the oil approval required which also gets folks all worked up. I have a 1.8 MQB car (Sportwagen) that calls for 502 so easy for me. Only the 2.0 MQBs in the GTI/GLI get the 508 oils; the R still holds out and gets 504 called for. Also, in general, folks don't really get the "0W" bit and think this equals water. I've even heard someone say they would never run 0W40..ahahahah. 0W and 5W are the same for all intents/purposes unless it way below zero. I would not feel comfortable running 508 oil in my car if it called for it based on my modifications and use. Will your car blow up b/c of it? Probably not but why run the risk if you are a "keep forever" owner like me? If you are a trade it in/part it out every 2 years then sure, fuck it.

Show me proof not talk that using a 508 oil in a stock EA888 spec'd for 508 will fail due to lack of lubrication due to HTHS issues?

See this is the thing. It's all talk based on old school info and tech.

All I'm saying is show me the proof. Not something someone says.

On top of all that. Your car is under warranty anyway. You really want to risk by some fluke your car actually does have an oil related failure and your not using an approved oil?

I mean it states in the manual do not use more than a half a quart of a 502 approved oil in the car not more than a half a quart? There must be a reason why?? For those that really know nothing about these engines in the way Volkswagen knows them and come here and State to use something else because I read on Bob is the oil guy or something?? Is just unbelievable.

Again show me the proof that 508 oil caused a stock engine to fail.
I will save you some time. You can't.

Mic drop.

 

[tigeo]

Show me proof not talk that using a 508 oil in a stock EA888 spec'd for 508 will fail due to lack of lubrication due to HTHS issues?

See this is the thing. It's all talk based on old school info and tech.

All I'm saying is show me the proof. Not something someone says.

On top of all that. Your car is under warranty anyway. You really want to risk by some fluke your car actually does have an oil related failure and your not using an approved oil?

I mean it states in the manual do not use more than a half a quart of a 502 approved oil in the car not more than a half a quart? There must be a reason why?? For those that really know nothing about these engines in the way Volkswagen knows them and come here and State to use something else because I read on Bob is the oil guy or something?? Is just unbelievable.

Again show me the proof that 508 oil caused a stock engine to fail.
I will save you some time. You can't.

Mic drop.

Mic drop...wow. I wasn't aware that my post was that provocative or was pointing out anything that was particularly controversial but drop those mics and get your Internet forum rocks off! Go back and re-read it. I think using 0W20 in a stock or lightly modified 2.0 is just fine as I thought I pointed out - I don't think I said otherwise but maybe I wasn't clear? My point was that if you are running bigger than lightly modified power in a GTI, running an oil like a 502 or 504 xW40s or 30s, respectively) with a higher HTHS makes good sense and won't hurt your car. Why does the Golf R not spec that lower viscosity oil? B/c it makes more power stock. Can you run 508/0W20 in a Golf R? Sure. Do drag cars run 0W8 or whatever to eek every once of power? Yes b/c they use the engine once. Why do the big-power current get Audis run the new 511 spec which are 5W40s which are really just low SAPS 504s? Warranty? I killed that the day I tuned it 3 mos. after I bought it. Is your car modified...doesn't sound like it.

I think 0W20 is fine for a stock or lightly-modified GTI and causes no issues under normal use and as you point out - no data exists that this will decrease the life of it. Clear?

 

[dequardo]

Oil talk is like election talk. Sadly a large number of people think the 2020 election was stolen. Try convincing them with facts and court decisions. I wish you luck.

 

[dtfd]

Oil talk is like election talk. Sadly a large number of people think the 2020 election was stolen. Try convincing them with facts and court decisions. I wish you luck.

It was a stolen election!

We all know Kanye won every state!

 

[jimlloyd40]

Mic drop...wow. I wasn't aware that my post was that provocative or was pointing out anything that was particularly controversial but drop those mics and get your Internet forum rocks off! Go back and re-read it. I think using 0W20 in a stock or lightly modified 2.0 is just fine as I thought I pointed out - I don't think I said otherwise but maybe I wasn't clear? My point was that if you are running bigger than lightly modified power in a GTI, running an oil like a 502 or 504 xW40s or 30s, respectively) with a higher HTHS makes good sense and won't hurt your car. Why does the Golf R not spec that lower viscosity oil? B/c it makes more power stock. Can you run 508/0W20 in a Golf R? Sure. Do drag cars run 0W8 or whatever to eek every once of power? Yes b/c they use the engine once. Why do the big-power current get Audis run the new 511 spec which are 5W40s which are really just low SAPS 504s? Warranty? I killed that the day I tuned it 3 mos. after I bought it. Is your car modified...doesn't sound like it.

I think 0W20 is fine for a stock or lightly-modified GTI and causes no issues under normal use and as you point out - no data exists that this will decrease the life of it. Clear?

You could have dropped the mic.

 

[kevinkar]

I think 0W20 is fine for a stock or lightly-modified GTI and causes no issues under normal use and as you point out - no data exists that this will decrease the life of it. Clear?

Most of this oil talk has always been ridiculous in just about every forum but the most reasonable answer is what you say here (and I'm paraphrasing it) in a stock application, oil is good.

Back in the old days cars came out and said something like "Use 0W-30 of at least spec SE" and that's what you put in. Several years later when they changed the spec to SF, SG, etc. many oils dropped the designation of SE off the label. So what do you do? Use the newer one and be done. Didn't have to be SE. Just use the latest. Then, when your engine started to use a bit of oil you didn't say "Well, the manual says use 0W-30 and that's all I'm ever going to put in the engine" and instead you used a slightly thicker one to stop those clouds of oil smoke coming out the tailpipe. Your car did not die. I mean what are you to do if your car is from 1979 and it says "Use spec ABCD" and they don't put out that spec anymore? Not drive it? Pfffft.

VW has a specificity that's a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Sure there are some formulation and additive differences between 502, 504, etc. and they are generally targeted for specific engines but that's overkill. It shouldn't be that difficult or specific. It's an internal combustion engine. Just tell me what weight oil is best, go buy the latest spec. and be done with it. But no. Gotta be 502. Oh wait, this year it's 504. Wait, what? Whatever.

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

Mic drop...wow. I wasn't aware that my post was that provocative or was pointing out anything that was particularly controversial but drop those mics and get your Internet forum rocks off! Go back and re-read it. I think using 0W20 in a stock or lightly modified 2.0 is just fine as I thought I pointed out - I don't think I said otherwise but maybe I wasn't clear? My point was that if you are running bigger than lightly modified power in a GTI, running an oil like a 502 or 504 xW40s or 30s, respectively) with a higher HTHS makes good sense and won't hurt your car. Why does the Golf R not spec that lower viscosity oil? B/c it makes more power stock. Can you run 508/0W20 in a Golf R? Sure. Do drag cars run 0W8 or whatever to eek every once of power? Yes b/c they use the engine once. Why do the big-power current get Audis run the new 511 spec which are 5W40s which are really just low SAPS 504s? Warranty? I killed that the day I tuned it 3 mos. after I bought it. Is your car modified...doesn't sound like it.

I think 0W20 is fine for a stock or lightly-modified GTI and causes no issues under normal use and as you point out - no data exists that this will decrease the life of it. Clear?

Yep but and there is always a but. You bring up the R and Audi but those are not GTI's. If they spec a different oil then fine.

I ran stock 30w oil in a daily driven Evo 9 pushing over double it's factory HP. Tracked it every other weekend and was my daily for over 5 yrs. Had oil analysis does twice a year just to prove to people no abnormal wear was reflected in the oil.

The 7.5 does have a different oil pump, and other parts I'm sure along with the start/stop tech that some people actually use. 20w oils make sense here

So when do you change to a 30w or a 40w? Who is the authority? APR? Unitronic? I mean who? Now if you can provide links where they state when to switch weights because your engine will just self distruct if you don't i would love to see those links.

If you have someone who built your cars bottom end with pistons, rods and what not then by all means go by the engine builder at that point. To say though that the 20w oils even on lightly tuned cars may justify a 30w oil how do you know how that will affect the engine down the road?

We don't know unless you personally or some place like APR who actually tears the engine down to see actual differences can say this will help vs that. The new oil pump may not like thicker viscosities? Do we actually know this here in the States or are we going off word from across the pond that all will be good?

I've done allot of tracking and building cars over the years and have learned allot of hype exists out there with no real info to back anything up. So all I'm saying is if you have info that swings things one way or the other provide proof like links or something so people can read it for themselves.

Other wise it's all hearsay and Internet gossip.

I personally would love to read this information for myself so please share if you have it

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

Most of this oil talk has always been ridiculous in just about every forum but the most reasonable answer is what you say here (and I'm paraphrasing it) in a stock application, oil is good.

Back in the old days cars came out and said something like "Use 0W-30 of at least spec SE" and that's what you put in. Several years later when they changed the spec to SF, SG, etc. many oils dropped the designation of SE off the label. So what do you do? Use the newer one and be done. Didn't have to be SE. Just use the latest. Then, when your engine started to use a bit of oil you didn't say "Well, the manual says use 0W-30 and that's all I'm ever going to put in the engine" and instead you used a slightly thicker one to stop those clouds of oil smoke coming out the tailpipe. Your car did not die. I mean what are you to do if your car is from 1979 and it says "Use spec ABCD" and they don't put out that spec anymore? Not drive it? Pfffft.

VW has a specificity that's a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Sure there are some formulation and additive differences between 502, 504, etc. and they are generally targeted for specific engines but that's overkill. It shouldn't be that difficult or specific. It's an internal combustion engine. Just tell me what weight oil is best, go buy the latest spec. and be done with it. But no. Gotta be 502. Oh wait, this year it's 504. Wait, what? Whatever.

My family actually does have this issue but not with a 1979 but with a 1960 bug convertible that has been in the family since new.

The oil it needs is a single weight 30w that isn't easy to find. We looked and looked and found the right oil. It's out there and I'm not talking about just any 30w you can buy at Wallyworld, long story on that.... My Grandfather, then my Father have used the same 30w oil since new and now 62 yrs later it's on its original engine, still gets driven regularly and runs like a sewing machine.

Oil requirements do change over the years. Engines are manufactured to much better tolerances than years past. People using old school mentalities on new engine designs find out things dont always work.

 

[tigeo]

Most of this oil talk has always been ridiculous in just about every forum but the most reasonable answer is what you say here (and I'm paraphrasing it) in a stock application, oil is good.

Back in the old days cars came out and said something like "Use 0W-30 of at least spec SE" and that's what you put in. Several years later when they changed the spec to SF, SG, etc. many oils dropped the designation of SE off the label. So what do you do? Use the newer one and be done. Didn't have to be SE. Just use the latest. Then, when your engine started to use a bit of oil you didn't say "Well, the manual says use 0W-30 and that's all I'm ever going to put in the engine" and instead you used a slightly thicker one to stop those clouds of oil smoke coming out the tailpipe. Your car did not die. I mean what are you to do if your car is from 1979 and it says "Use spec ABCD" and they don't put out that spec anymore? Not drive it? Pfffft.

VW has a specificity that's a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Sure there are some formulation and additive differences between 502, 504, etc. and they are generally targeted for specific engines but that's overkill. It shouldn't be that difficult or specific. It's an internal combustion engine. Just tell me what weight oil is best, go buy the latest spec. and be done with it. But no. Gotta be 502. Oh wait, this year it's 504. Wait, what? Whatever.

The great thing about Euro oils is approval make it easy. Folks get hung on viscosity and the winter rating (OH MY GOD IT'S A 0W OH MY GOD" but really, it's very easy...use the correct approval and it's going to be ok...but like you say...it will be ok anyway for the vast majority of drivers even if you use any old SAE 5W30 etc. 504 is backwards compatible with 502 which also helps.

 

[tigeo]

Yep but and there is always a but. You bring up the R and Audi but those are not GTI's. If they spec a different oil then fine.

I ran stock 30w oil in a daily driven Evo 9 pushing over double it's factory HP. Tracked it every other weekend and was my daily for over 5 yrs. Had oil analysis does twice a year just to prove to people no abnormal wear was reflected in the oil.

The 7.5 does have a different oil pump, and other parts I'm sure along with the start/stop tech that some people actually use. 20w oils make sense here

So when do you change to a 30w or a 40w? Who is the authority? APR? Unitronic? I mean who? Now if you can provide links where they state when to switch weights because your engine will just self distruct if you don't i would love to see those links.

If you have someone who built your cars bottom end with pistons, rods and what not then by all means go by the engine builder at that point. To say though that the 20w oils even on lightly tuned cars may justify a 30w oil how do you know how that will affect the engine down the road?

We don't know unless you personally or some place like APR who actually tears the engine down to see actual differences can say this will help vs that. The new oil pump may not like thicker viscosities? Do we actually know this here in the States or are we going off word from across the pond that all will be good?

I've done allot of tracking and building cars over the years and have learned allot of hype exists out there with no real info to back anything up. So all I'm saying is if you have info that swings things one way or the other provide proof like links or something so people can read it for themselves.

Other wise it's all hearsay and Internet gossip.

I personally would love to read this information for myself so please share if you have it

I am not talking about stock GTIs (I feel like a broken record at this point)...I'm talking about higher power stuff folks commonly do around here including tunes/bigger turbos. Would you have run 0W20 in your Evo? I'm going with "no". Both VW502.00 or 504.00 approvals (502s are mainly xw40s and 504s are mainly xW30s) are much more stout oils w/r to HTHS than the 508 (which are all 0W20s but not all 0W20s have the VW508 00 approval) which was the point of pointing out that both the R and Audis with high stock power call for these (or 511) vs. the 508/0W20 on the recent model years GTI/GLI. EQT a popular "authority" on tuning GTIs and R points to using 5W40 (VW502 00) oils in cars running their tunes, you can look at the FAQs to see that info but you won't be satisfied b/c it's just a recommendation. There are ad-nauseum discussions here/there/elsewhere/BITOG regarding this question about the 0W20s in the GTIs with many folks running old-school Euro 5W40 with no drama. Again, you can do your searching. I've said it now about 3 times - on a stock GTI, run the 0W20 and be happy. If you tune your GTI for more than 2x stock power, run the 0W20 as well or feel better and run the common Euro 5W40s that have proven over many years to provide reliable lubrication in a variety of cars of all power levels which many folks are doing. Sometimes car stuff is about feeling good about your choices and many don't feel ok running the thinner oils in higher-power boosted cars data-backed or not. Do you do 10K oil changes or something shorter?

 

[swcrow]

/thread lol

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

I am not talking about stock GTIs (I feel like a broken record at this point)...I'm talking about higher power stuff folks commonly do around here including tunes/bigger turbos. Would you have run 0W20 in your Evo? I'm going with "no". Both VW502.00 or 504.00 approvals (502s are mainly xw40s and 504s are mainly xW30s) are much more stout oils w/r to HTHS than the 508 (which are all 0W20s but not all 0W20s have the VW508 00 approval) which was the point of pointing out that both the R and Audis with high stock power call for these (or 511) vs. the 508/0W20 on the recent model years GTI/GLI. EQT a popular "authority" on tuning GTIs and R points to using 5W40 (VW502 00) oils in cars running their tunes, you can look at the FAQs to see that info but you won't be satisfied b/c it's just a recommendation. There are ad-nauseum discussions here/there/elsewhere/BITOG regarding this question about the 0W20s in the GTIs with many folks running old-school Euro 5W40 with no drama. Again, you can do your searching. I've said it now about 3 times - on a stock GTI, run the 0W20 and be happy. If you tune your GTI for more than 2x stock power, run the 0W20 as well or feel better and run the common Euro 5W40s that have proven over many years to provide reliable lubrication in a variety of cars of all power levels which many folks are doing. Sometimes car stuff is about feeling good about your choices and many don't feel ok running the thinner oils in higher-power boosted cars data-backed or not. Do you do 10K oil changes or something shorter?

No didn't run a 20w in my Evo because the manufacturer didn't spec a 20w it spec'd a 30w. Very common for Evo owners making power to go with even 50w oils but i never did even making double the factory rated hp. I also tracked that car often to say the least and has zero issues.

In the MK7.5 case it is now spec'd for a 20w. People keep saying there is nothing to warrant the 20w other than fuel economy, with some folks stating there is nothing different about the engines pre face lift of which we know is not true.

So who are the authority on having to run a 30w or 40w oil in a GTI even tuned? Give me links of the people that are the so called pro's so u can reach out to them with some questions.

With no links or no proof is all hearsay.

So when is the change needed? 300hp? 400hp? Who says when the switch is warranted?

Seems like you spend a lot of time on Bob is the oil guy website or something.

You put all this info out there but means nothing to me. SHOW ME THE PROOF PLEASE.

 

[swcrow]

Adam…, release your meta data

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

No didn't run a 20w in my Evo because the manufacturer didn't spec a 20w it spec'd a 30w. Very common for Evo owners making power to go with even 50w oils but i never did even making double the factory rated hp. I also tracked that car often to say the least and has zero issues.

In the MK7.5 case it is now spec'd for a 20w. People keep saying there is nothing to warrant the 20w other than fuel economy, with some folks stating there is nothing different about the engines pre face lift of which we know is not true.

So who are the authority on having to run a 30w or 40w oil in a GTI even tuned? Give me links of the people that are the so called pro's so u can reach out to them with some questions.

With no links or no proof is all hearsay.

So when is the change needed? 300hp? 400hp? Who says when the switch is warranted?

Adam…, release your meta data

Please do. Reputable sources please and please provide links so I can do some research myself.

And Please no Bob Is The Oil Guy Links Provide proof from known reliable engine builders. All I want is the info so i can see for myself and not hearsay.

Thank You

 

[tigeo]

Please do. Reputable sources please and please provide links so I can do some research myself.

And Please no Bob Is The Oil Guy Links Provide proof from known reliable engine builders. All I want is the info so i can see for myself and not hearsay.

Thank You

This from EQTs FAQ. I'd say Ed and EQT crew know their stuff about tuning MQB cars and what works when pushing these cars. I'm sure you can find more if you look.