0W-20 VW 508/508 oil analysis/comparison

[Jeffs2013GTI]

This from EQTs FAQ. I'd say Ed and EQT crew know their stuff about tuning MQB cars and what works when pushing these cars. I'm sure you can find more if you look.


View attachment 236517

I will reach out to them and ask some questions Thanks

 

[Supermoto]

So I just read through 12 pages of people fighting about the most random stuff. As of now (3 years after the thread was started), has there been a verdict on if 508.00 Spec 0w-20 is safe to run in a spirited daily driver? Feels funny even writing that... Is a VW Spec oil safe to run in the VW it was designed for...

 

[jimlloyd40]

So I just read through 12 pages of people fighting about the most random stuff. As of now (3 years after the thread was started), has there been a verdict on if 508.00 Spec 0w-20 is safe to run in a spirited daily driver? Feels funny even writing that... Is a VW Spec oil safe to run in the VW it was designed for...

Yes

 

[tigeo]

So I just read through 12 pages of people fighting about the most random stuff. As of now (3 years after the thread was started), has there been a verdict on if 508.00 Spec 0w-20 is safe to run in a spirited daily driver? Feels funny even writing that... Is a VW Spec oil safe to run in the VW it was designed for...

*a VW that is operating far outside of its design.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Speaking just for myself, I run the 0-20w in my car that some consider its operating outside of its design. I feel fine running it too, and personally and not affected or persuaded to run a heavier weight because a tuner or forum users say too, when the recommendation is loosely based on tradition “this is how it’s always been” . But that’s just for me, and I get that others don’t feel comfortable running it in their cars.

 

[jimlloyd40]

In Phoenix in the winter I run 5w30 and in the summer 10w40. Cerma brand oil.

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

So I just read through 12 pages of people fighting about the most random stuff. As of now (3 years after the thread was started), has there been a verdict on if 508.00 Spec 0w-20 is safe to run in a spirited daily driver? Feels funny even writing that... Is a VW Spec oil safe to run in the VW it was designed for...

I understand the frustration. That frustration is usually why 3 yr old posts come back up. There is nothing wrong with using 508 oil in your car. I just like to see proof when people claim you do need to change grades.

I am no VW engineer nor claim to be an oil expert. Though i do have about 20 yrs of autox and track experience. Mainly in Honda/Acuras in the late 80's early 90's. Then in mid 90's switched to forced induction from the makes of Mitsubishi Eclipse, then i moved onto Evo's from 2003-2012. I have learned allot over the years. I can take a 4G63 apart blind folded haha.. I have also heard allot of claims and i have even disputed claims by known 4G63 specialists claiming i "Needed" to do this or that and proved them wrong over and over.

Yes there is a time and a place when changing oil grades is warranted. Running a stock block, stock turbo usually isn't one of them. Now for those that actually "track" their car on a regular basis and want to see lower oil temps? Ok sure you can bump up. But to say "you better or else" type of attitude is a crock. You really want to lower oil temps? Get a decent external oil cooler. If your pushing 600whp in your GTI and the engine builder said use a particular oil and you just dropped $20,000 for an engine build? Then yeah i would listen to that guy haha

In 99% of GTI owners just don't need to. Think about this for a second. The average American family keeps their new car for average of 3 yrs. Most people won't even keep their car long enough to see any I'll affects either way.

So why did VW switch from 502 to 508? I suspect for 3 reasons.

1. Emissions
2. Fuel Economy
3. Lower Carbon Deposits

Emissions is a huge issue in some States. In California now when you get your car smogged for your tags every 2 yrs? They now will check for a tune or any ECU software changes. If you have an unofficial ECU mod? You will fail the inspection. All this for Emissions so yes it's a big deal. Hassle to deal with taking mods on and off tunes installed/uninstalled.

Fuel Economy goes hand and hand with Emissions. Governmental requirements are getting worse and worse. So much so the gas engine as we know it will be going bye bye by 2035. Thank all the tree huggers for that.

Lower Carbon Deposits which are a HUGE issue on VAG cars here in the States. It has been shown that the PCV system that has blow by recirc through the intake gums everything up. Though the MK7 is much better than previous versions it's still an issue. The low saps to mid saps 508 will help with the carbon issues. That's probably one reason why in Europe they allow a 30w or a 40w due to the dual injection they have there that we don't have here. That will pretty much eliminate that problem altogether. Here in the USA? We get other ways to fight the carbon. 508 i believe is part of that.

Then add into the mix the start/stop tech that actually allot of people use. You want an oil to circulate quickly and get to the vital engine parts quick and no 30 or 40w is going to flow as quick as a 20w in this situation. This will reduce wear over time. Not to mention at start up when 80% of engine wear happens in the first place

I have learned to use what the vehicle is spec'd for. If you decide to do mods and go down that rabbit hole then you have nothing to lose by switching grades. Your mods or bad driving may do more damage long term than any oil you choose to use

Do what you think is right for your car. Just don't come on the forum and state stuff that makes no sense at all and can't be backed by anyone that actually knows anything about VW's. Or even people that do know VW's but say to do it just because but have zero proof of any failures due to the oil itself. Usually bad tunes kill engines not the oil.

With all that in mind, sorry for bringing back an oil topic but with covid and all this mess we all are going though I was bored and just have to call BS when I see it. There may be a time and a place but for 99% of us the 508 is all you will ever need.

 

[tigeo]

From another oil-related post here on the forum:

That's crazy...had a MK6 GTI i bought new in 2013 sold it to my friend in the spring of 2018. In the 5 plus yrs of owning that car i never once had to add oil. That car i changed the oil every 5k miles with castrol edge euro 0w40 (VW502)
Fast FW to today. MK7.5's running VW 508 0w20 and people are using a qt or more of oil between changes? Unacceptable in this day and age and is one reason why VW has poor predicted reliability ratings.
With something as easy as a Dipstick and the inability to read it correctly people may assume their car is using oil when maybe they aren't? If your put in the specified 6 qts and it only goes half way on the Dipstick?
I don't know just a stupid design.
I'm not used to adding oil to a new car this better not be the trend or I won't be keeping this MK7.5 as long as i kept my MK6.
On top of that I'm having to take the GTI in to have the blender door flapper replaced because it's clicking and popping. Car has 7500 miles on it. Unacceptable VW

Just curious why your'e not going VW's engineers and wasting all the oil not going with 10K change intervals? Also, clearly by the manual, 1 qt between changes is more than within the realm of normal and VW even considers 1qt/1200 miles normal. Do you have any proof that 10K oil changes or some normal levels of consumption caused any failures? Just had to call BS when I see it. Thanks.

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

From another oil-related post here on the forum:

Just curious why your'e not going VW's engineers and wasting all the oil not going with 10K change intervals? Also, clearly by the manual, 1 qt between changes is more than within the realm of normal and VW even considers 1qt/1200 miles normal. Do you have any proof that 10K oil changes or some normal levels of consumption caused any failures? Just had to call BS when I see it. Thanks.

Why do i do 5k oil changes? I have done 5k oil changes since probably before you were born not to defy VW recommendations.

This is a habit that i began many many years ago. Do I have to? No. I do simply out of habit. To say that using a non approved oil for my car vs charging an approved oil more often justifies what you do?

Obviously your baiting and I'm done with this conversation. Said what i has to say and not here to argue with you.

All i wanted was your proof that 508 oil on a stock vehicle or even a tuned one will cause an engine failure due to the oil itself. You have yet to show any proof of that.

So I'm out. I think people will read what i had to say and either agree or not. Most likely non of you will have your car long enough anyway to find out. If you do? Get back with me in 10 yrs/200k miles later and we will have a conversation. Till then? You do what you want and i will do what has worked for me.

 

[tigeo]

Why do i do 5k oil changes? I have done 5k oil changes since probably before you were born not to defy VW recommendations.

This is a habit that i began many many years ago. Do I have to? No. I do simply out of habit. To say that using a non approved oil for my car vs charging an approved oil more often justifies what you do?

Obviously your baiting and I'm done with this conversation. Said what i has to say and not here to argue with you.

All i wanted was your proof that 508 oil on a stock vehicle or even a tuned one will cause an engine failure due to the oil itself. You have yet to show any proof of that.

So I'm out. I think people will read what i had to say and either agree or not. Most likely non of you will have your car long enough anyway to find out. If you do? Get back with me in 10 yrs/200k miles later and we will have a conversation. Till then? You do what you want and i will do what has worked for me.

I'm glad you assumed how old I am - I think I'm quite a bit older than you think (~50). I know I'll have my car long enough as I don't buy cars often and I drive them typically for 10+years but then again, my 1.8 Sportwagen calls for 502 oil which I use so no drama here w/r to using 508/0W20. Our MK4 we bought new in '99 went 14 years/220K on mainly 10K oil changes on Mobil 1 0W40 and then went to 300K with the next owner...that's a data point I often think of w/r to this convo. I have not shown you any proof as you point out and I don't think anyone here ever said 508 oil would cause engine failure - folks are simply using/recommending what they consider the best oil for their cars or what has always worked much like you do 5K changes b/c you think this is a good idea even though tons of data support that 10K is just fine. It's tough for enthusiasts to change gears on this stuff and when VW rolls out a thinner oil for cars that always took a thicker one and those thicker oils are still used across the brand/many models, folks balk data/evidence or not.

 

[dequardo]

From another oil-related post here on the forum:

Just curious why your'e not going VW's engineers and wasting all the oil not going with 10K change intervals? Also, clearly by the manual, 1 qt between changes is more than within the realm of normal and VW even considers 1qt/1200 miles normal. Do you have any proof that 10K oil changes or some normal levels of consumption caused any failures? Just had to call BS when I see it. Thanks.

Good god. Castigating people who do changes before 10000 miles takes this thread even deeper into the dumper. The first rule when in a hole is to stop digging. Please Just Stop

 

[tigeo]

Good god. Castigating people who do changes before 10000 miles takes this thread even deeper into the dumper. The first rule when in a hole is to stop digging. Please Just Stop

I'm not castigating anyone about their OCIs except the poster that is saying folks are fools for not following VWs recommendation of 0W20 but then turns around and goes against the VW recommended 10K. Settle down Beavis, the hole isn't that deep.

 

[dequardo]

Says the guy who keeps digging. Buh bye

 

[Supermoto]

I understand the frustration. That frustration is usually why 3 yr old posts come back up. There is nothing wrong with using 508 oil in your car. I just like to see proof when people claim you do need to change grades.

I am no VW engineer nor claim to be an oil expert. Though i do have about 20 yrs of autox and track experience. Mainly in Honda/Acuras in the late 80's early 90's. Then in mid 90's switched to forced induction from the makes of Mitsubishi Eclipse, then i moved onto Evo's from 2003-2012. I have learned allot over the years. I can take a 4G63 apart blind folded haha.. I have also heard allot of claims and i have even disputed claims by known 4G63 specialists claiming i "Needed" to do this or that and proved them wrong over and over.

Yes there is a time and a place when changing oil grades is warranted. Running a stock block, stock turbo usually isn't one of them. Now for those that actually "track" their car on a regular basis and want to see lower oil temps? Ok sure you can bump up. But to say "you better or else" type of attitude is a crock. You really want to lower oil temps? Get a decent external oil cooler. If your pushing 600whp in your GTI and the engine builder said use a particular oil and you just dropped $20,000 for an engine build? Then yeah i would listen to that guy haha

In 99% of GTI owners just don't need to. Think about this for a second. The average American family keeps their new car for average of 3 yrs. Most people won't even keep their car long enough to see any I'll affects either way.

So why did VW switch from 502 to 508? I suspect for 3 reasons.

1. Emissions
2. Fuel Economy
3. Lower Carbon Deposits

Emissions is a huge issue in some States. In California now when you get your car smogged for your tags every 2 yrs? They now will check for a tune or any ECU software changes. If you have an unofficial ECU mod? You will fail the inspection. All this for Emissions so yes it's a big deal. Hassle to deal with taking mods on and off tunes installed/uninstalled.

Fuel Economy goes hand and hand with Emissions. Governmental requirements are getting worse and worse. So much so the gas engine as we know it will be going bye bye by 2035. Thank all the tree huggers for that.

Lower Carbon Deposits which are a HUGE issue on VAG cars here in the States. It has been shown that the PCV system that has blow by recirc through the intake gums everything up. Though the MK7 is much better than previous versions it's still an issue. The low saps to mid saps 508 will help with the carbon issues. That's probably one reason why in Europe they allow a 30w or a 40w due to the dual injection they have there that we don't have here. That will pretty much eliminate that problem altogether. Here in the USA? We get other ways to fight the carbon. 508 i believe is part of that.

Then add into the mix the start/stop tech that actually allot of people use. You want an oil to circulate quickly and get to the vital engine parts quick and no 30 or 40w is going to flow as quick as a 20w in this situation. This will reduce wear over time. Not to mention at start up when 80% of engine wear happens in the first place

I have learned to use what the vehicle is spec'd for. If you decide to do mods and go down that rabbit hole then you have nothing to lose by switching grades. Your mods or bad driving may do more damage long term than any oil you choose to use

Do what you think is right for your car. Just don't come on the forum and state stuff that makes no sense at all and can't be backed by anyone that actually knows anything about VW's. Or even people that do know VW's but say to do it just because but have zero proof of any failures due to the oil itself. Usually bad tunes kill engines not the oil.

With all that in mind, sorry for bringing back an oil topic but with covid and all this mess we all are going though I was bored and just have to call BS when I see it. There may be a time and a place but for 99% of us the 508 is all you will ever need.

Excellently written, and greatly appreciated. I will now put this topic to rest in my head and move on to more important things.

 

[tigeo]

Says the guy who keeps digging. Buh bye

Would you like to add anything of value to the oil convo? I see your main mods are tint and a drop in filter from your sig. For you, whatever oil you would like will be just fine and will take that Jetta well above 200K. I run Walmart "Supertech" brand in 2 of my cars for reference. In the Passat W8? Liquimoly. In the Atlas? Any oil with the correct approval (502 or 504) but typically LM b/c it's free from FCP. For the GSW? The car I take to the track and generally drive hard with 2x stock power? High Performance Lubricants custom blend with a HTHS>4. It would probably last forever on 0W20 too but this is an enthusiast forum for the most part so some of us go above and beyond even if not necessary. I'll have the GSW until I die.

Let me make this clear. I think anyone here can run VW508.00 0W20 in any VW and it will be fine. I think you can run Walmart's Supertech Synthetic 5W30 in any car here and be ok. That's b/c most folks are trading in their cars every few years and not really pushing them. For a stock MQB...these oils are perfect. But this is golfmk7 and many are modded to the moon power-wise and have far surpassed VW's original design parameters and for them...running "thicker" oils with higher film strength and HTHS vs. the economy-focused 508/0W20 is going to make them happy/feel better and give the highest levels of lubrication protection for their cars. Run what you want man.