GTI to Golf R?

[aloha_from_bradley]

@Hyperlite

Watch this video:

I know it's kinda long, but he does a great test drive near the limit and explains much of why the GTI isn't an ideal FWD setup. Uses words like terminal understeer, etc. In all fairness, even the R's tendency is towards understeer, even for an AWD vehicle. But you can only imagine how bad it is in the GTI without the rear wheels driven.

Then watch this:

He talks about how the R fixes all of the issues he encountered driving near the limit in the GTI. There really is a lot of valuable information comparing the two stock vehicles.

 

[victorofhavoc]

The north American cars come with crap alignments from the factory, for both cars. Not to mention the kind of rubber on the car makes a massive difference.

I've driven both on track as stock (except pads, fluids, tires) vehicles and both modified. Stock, they both push a bit. Both lean a lot. The R overheats the brakes sooner because it carries more weight and makes a lot more power, a lot! 4 laps in the brakes are pushing it and the front tires start to really feel it. GTI touched a 5th lap before brakes were an issue.

After alignment and some basic bolt on stuff, the gti really comes alive and shows off what all the weight fuss is about; it will toss the rear end on command, you just need toe 0 all around. The R really becomes fun after an alignment, stock or otherwise. The gti needs some mods in the suspension department, and lots of defeating electronic nannies.

 

[Hyperlite]

@aloha_from_bradley thanks for that! Those were good in depth reviews that I surprisingly hadn’t seen yet.

I’m quite convinced that I’d be happier in a golf R long term. Unfortunately it’s just the worst time to be shopping for an upgrade with used cars at an all time high value. For me I think it’s not a matter if, but when. But being patient sucks haha

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

@aloha_from_bradley thanks for that! Those were good in depth reviews that I surprisingly hadn’t seen yet.

I’m quite convinced that I’d be happier in a golf R long term. Unfortunately it’s just the worst time to be shopping for an upgrade with used cars at an all time high value. For me I think it’s not a matter if, but when. But being patient sucks haha

I've said it in a couple different threads. I can sell my R for more than I payed for it 2 years ago. Never has that been the case in the history of automobiles.

Covid really changed a lot of things. Supply chain was devastated in areas making the used market more appealing then ever. That in combination with the fact that we haven't seen an R for 2 years has really driven up the price. The used market is very strong, but I don't think it will be for much longer. If you have an R and want the MK8, now is the time to sell. Private party Golf Rs will yield the most $$$ possible right now, setting many up for a hefty down payment on the MK8, or liquid funds available for investments or other.

I'm honestly torn. I could pocket some serious cash if I came anywhere close to what others are asking currently. I just can't bring myself to sell my car because I love it so much. I'm also not a fan of the front end or interior of the MK8. I need to see it in person and drive the car to be convinced. By then the trade in value will be more than 10k less than what I could get on the private market currently. Total catch 22.

You are better off putting your money into a brand new R in a few months if you really want one. Get the whole front end PPFd. Take care of it. That's my suggestion, if you are on the fence.

 

[Hyperlite]

I think it’s already starting to happen. Lots of R’s on the market, (I look everyday). Asking prices are high but they don’t seem to be selling very fast. Things are starting to open up slowly (EU announcement yesterday) and I think people are getting ready to spend money on travel and other normal activities again. Good news for me

 

[Al_in_Philly]

Looking for feedback from anyone that went from a GTI to a Golf R. I currently own a 2015 GTI PP stage 1 and the car is fantastic but my biggest gripe is when the road is even damp the car struggles for traction.

For those that made the switch, are you happy? Any regrets?

I absolutely don’t need an R, but I get a twinge of envy anytime I pass one. I also have aspirations of big power mods down the road and feel like the R is a much better platform for that.

Any feedback would be appreciated! (And yes I tried to do a search but didn’t find much for feedback of people that have owned both).

While I was waiting for VW to start bringing in the MK7 R's to the US, the dealer who I was working with called me to tell me that they had just gotten one of the (then) new PP GTI's and asked if I wanted a test drive, which I accepted. The PP GTI was really nice, for all of the reasons which are now common knowledge. But I deferred; let me tell you why. Like the original poster, Hyperlite, I was concerned about traction in less than ideal circumstances--I was then driving a Mk4 GLI which was really, really, nice, but when winter came, I always had to pay close attention to the possibility of losing traction. But that wasn't the only thing which hindered my purchasing the PP GTI; more critically, it was knowing that if I didn't stick around and wait for the Golf R, I'd know that I had "settled" for second best. Sometimes, just knowing that you have the best of something provides tremendous satisfaction, even if it's not the most rational decision when it comes to an objective cost/benefit analysis. Human beings are only partly rational--if we were, owning a basic Golf would be what many of us would be driving. We are emotional beings as well, and recognizing the value of feeling satisfied is, as they say in the VISA commercials, "priceless." After more than 6 years of ownership now, I still feel that same sense of satisfaction every time I get behind the wheel of my Golf R.

 

[SnailpowerMk7]

While I was waiting for VW to start bringing in the MK7 R's to the US, the dealer who I was working with called me to tell me that they had just gotten one of the (then) new PP GTI's and asked if I wanted a test drive, which I accepted. The PP GTI was really nice, for all of the reasons which are now common knowledge. But I deferred; let me tell you why. Like the original poster, Hyperlite, I was concerned about traction in less than ideal circumstances--I was then driving a Mk4 GLI which was really, really, nice, but when winter came, I always had to pay close attention to the possibility of losing traction. But that wasn't the only thing which hindered my purchasing the PP GTI; more critically, it was knowing that if I didn't stick around and wait for the Golf R, I'd know that I had "settled" for second best. Sometimes, just knowing that you have the best of something provides tremendous satisfaction, even if it's not the most rational decision when it comes to an objective cost/benefit analysis. Human beings are only partly rational--if we were, owning a basic Golf would be what many of us would be driving. We are emotional beings as well, and recognizing the value of feeling satisfied is, as they say in the VISA commercials, "priceless." After more than 6 years of ownership now, I still feel that same sense of satisfaction every time I get behind the wheel of my Golf R.

That's a good speech but I don't buy it, lol. I live in Jersey. A stone throw away from you and get equally sh!!!ty weather. I've owned a GTI for 8 years and had zero issues in the snow. Granted, you will want to have a spare set of Winter tires to deal with it, but otherwise you should be fine if you don't drive like an a$$hole. The only advantage I would find with the R and the AWD is if you rock all seasons which suck at everything. The AWD will compensate for their suckage. Since I want maximum driving fun in summer, I need summer tires which makes swapping back to winters ideal. All seasons can stay the hell off my car forever.

I've had a summer/winter setup for around 7 years of ownership and had zero troubles driving through totally crappy weather. I mean, if there is ice, you're f**ked regardless if you have AWD or not. Anything else is like an excuse for being a bad driver. The only thing I would prefer AWD for is the launch traction but since I don't go to a race track, I don't see the need for it. If I take away AWD and just look at the car itself, is it really worth 15k over a GTI? Rolling my eyes over here big time...

 

[Charlotte.:R]

That's a good speech but I don't buy it, lol. I live in Jersey. A stone throw away from you and get equally sh!!!ty weather. I've owned a GTI for 8 years and had zero issues in the snow. Granted, you will want to have a spare set of Winter tires to deal with it, but otherwise you should be fine if you don't drive like an a$$hole. The only advantage I would find with the R and the AWD is if you rock all seasons which suck at everything. The AWD will compensate for their suckage. Since I want maximum driving fun in summer, I need summer tires which makes swapping back to winters ideal. All seasons can stay the hell off my car forever.

I've had a summer/winter setup for around 7 years of ownership and had zero troubles driving through totally crappy weather. I mean, if there is ice, you're f**ked regardless if you have AWD or not. Anything else is like an excuse for being a bad driver. The only thing I would prefer AWD for is the launch traction but since I don't go to a race track, I don't see the need for it. If I take away AWD and just look at the car itself, is it really worth 15k over a GTI? Rolling my eyes over here big time...

Yeah, AWD only helps on a race track. I never make a right turn onto a busy 4 lane divided highway and enjoy having traction.

And the tighter gearing and turbo that doesn't run out of steam at 5K definitely aren't worth anything

 

[victorofhavoc]

I think his point was really that for him the wait for his desires is what made him happy. There is definitely a mental aspect to enjoying something more when delaying gratification...

You're not wrong that traction is based off of your tire, not your drive type...

 

[victorofhavoc]

Yeah, AWD only helps on a race track. I never make a right turn onto a busy 4 lane divided highway and enjoy having traction.

And the tighter gearing and turbo that doesn't run out of steam at 5K definitely aren't worth anything

Yeah, the is38 is better for sure. I literally rip onto onramps and have zero issue with traction, but I run good tires...

Awd actually does not help that much on a racetrack in this platform unless you're doing drag. The additional weight hurts, especially on the brakes and turn in.

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

All I hear are more ways to try and justify the GTI over R purchase. I've said it over and over, it comes down to price.

1. People DO make purchase decisions based on emotion
2. AWD IS better in winter conditions
3. You can still put winter tires on a Golf R

I bought my R in 2019 for 38.5k brand new. The GTI Autobahn I went to buy was around 34k. Not sure how this adds up to a 15k difference? You must be comparing the GTI S to the Golf R, which is not a fair comparison. Completely different trims. The Autobahn is essentially a Golf R with a smaller turbo, downgraded engine design, and no AWD... but the features and interior are essentially the same. A real comparison would be closer to a 4-6k differential.

 

[victorofhavoc]

All I hear are more ways to try and justify the GTI over R purchase. I've said it over and over, it comes down to price.

1. People DO make purchase decisions based on emotion
2. AWD IS better in winter conditions
3. You can still put winter tires on a Golf R

I bought my R in 2019 for 38.5k brand new. The GTI Autobahn I went to buy was around 34k. Not sure how this adds up to a 15k difference? You must be comparing the GTI S to the Golf R, which is not a fair comparison. Completely different trims. The Autobahn is essentially a Golf R with a smaller turbo, downgraded engine design, and no AWD... but the features and interior are essentially the same. A real comparison would be closer to a 4-6k differential.

I totally agree. It all comes down to bang per buck, but people also need to not kid themselves about this "awd is god" business. You're also implying there's something wrong with the engine by calling it downgraded, when for the majority of people it's more than good enough. It's not a downgraded engine, they just upgraded a couple things on the R .

The R i lived with for two weeks and drove on track twice had a 48k dealer sticker price. The Gti I then also lived with and drove on track once was the top spec autobahn and the sticker price was 44k. The r cost the dealer would not budge on for people (he's a friend so he told me), and the gti price he could drop down to 36k. I eventually bought my autobahn from him, used with 13k miles, for 22k. That's how I justify the bang per buck and willingness to spend the many thousands I've spent on it.

 

[SnailpowerMk7]

I was referring to base price I guess in my post. An average GTI base is around 24,999. A base average starting price of an "R" should be around 39,999.

Of course I know AWD will be better in snow. No doubt about it. There is a reason hospitals have a fleet of subarus for their staff that deal with outcalls.

I'm just saying, the justification of the price vs what you're getting. To me, the main driving sale on the R is the AWD and I don't see it enough of a justification for the price increase against a base trim GTI. I mean, for some, they do see that as enough. I personally have not, but I guess I don't deal with enough situations to think I need AWD in my life... Like, the GTI does enough that I need really well and if I was going to the price point of 40k+, I'd have my eyes on something else probably.

 

[bentin]

Full blown awd is good on the track, Haldex is questionable and adds even more heat related issues to the MQB which already has plenty of cooling issues in the simplest forms. If were were talking about an S4 with 40f/60r quattro and the ability to send it all to the back with the mechanical sport differential versus a fwd A4, I could get on board, and I would have certainly paid extra for the quattro car in that case. But we're talking about a car that's 90f/10r until there's slip and then having a max transfer of 50%. I wanted to like it, but I didn't feel like the added weight was of benefit in the sunbelt. And you guys know we can buy an IS38 too, right?

They're both great cars, I like seeing R's, I like seeing GTI's and I love seeing the wagons. Hell, what I'd be most excited for would be a rwd Golf, call it the Flog!

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

I totally agree. It all comes down to bang per buck, but people also need to not kid themselves about this "awd is god" business. You're also implying there's something wrong with the engine by calling it downgraded, when for the majority of people it's more than good enough. It's not a downgraded engine, they just upgraded a couple things on the R .

The R i lived with for two weeks and drove on track twice had a 48k dealer sticker price. The Gti I then also lived with and drove on track once was the top spec autobahn and the sticker price was 44k. The r cost the dealer would not budge on for people (he's a friend so he told me), and the gti price he could drop down to 36k. I eventually bought my autobahn from him, used with 13k miles, for 22k. That's how I justify the bang per buck and willingness to spend the many thousands I've spent on it.

I said downgraded engine design, not downgraded engine. Also, AWD isn't necessarily god, but it's close. Not sure who tried to sell you an R for 48k, but they were smoking crack. My DSG R had a sticker of about 42k, and I walked out paying 38.5k before TTL. Here are the upgraded engine components I was speaking to earlier (found on a quick google search). It's more than just a couple things. I thought I read that the pistons were different as well, but can't verify. I can say that the head is also made of a different alloy for higher heat resistance.

• Bigger Turbocharger IS38 vs IS20
• Exhaust valves (hollow, higher Ni content, nitrided)
• Exhaust valve seat rings (improved temperature stability and wear resistance)
• Exhaust camshaft (adapted valve timings)
• Compression ratio 9.3:1 with different pistons
• Piston cooling jets (higher flow rate)
• High pressure injectors (even higher flow rate)
• Exhaust turbocharger Charge pressures of up to 17.4 PSI (1.2 bar)
• High performance main radiator with 1-2 auxiliary radiators (depending on country specifications)