GTI to Golf R?

[aloha_from_bradley]

Yeah I’ve been around these forums since 2013 and I’ve seen what you’re describing play out enough. Everyone jumps down someone’s throat the moment they mention build quality and Mexico vs Germany.

in those people’s defense, my German/Wolfsburg-built MK6 GTI was a lemon. Timing chain slipped @ 30K, Grenaded top end. TOB failed @ 40K, VW said it’s my fault. I just drove on the fucked up clutch till 46, 47K miles when the water pump failed and I was like okay this car is a POS and I traded it for a then-new 2015 MK7 2-door GTI SE 6MT W/ LP (no PP). Not a problem with the Mexican-built MK7, even after I careened into a highway exit curb going too fast on stock tires etc.

The MK6 platform had lots of issues. Timing chain tensioners & water pumps were the main culprits. I was referring more to the construction / solidity of the vehicle more than anything. Less rattling and more of an encapsulated feeling while in the car. I'm not sure what the difference is. The German made MK7s / 7.5s have their share of issues as well. My water pump / thermo housing was replaced @ 18k, and I still smell coolant.

A buddy of mine is a sales manager for a VW dealership who reviews metrics etc. all the time. Apparently the MK7 GTI was one of the best cars to ever come out of a plant in Mexico. Specifically related to build quality, panel gapping, etc. Not sure how this was calculated, but it's a nice to know.

 

[jimlloyd40]

The MK6 platform had lots of issues. Timing chain tensioners & water pumps were the main culprits. I was referring more to the construction / solidity of the vehicle more than anything. Less rattling and more of an encapsulated feeling while in the car. I'm not sure what the difference is. The German made MK7s / 7.5s have their share of issues as well. My water pump / thermo housing was replaced @ 18k, and I still smell coolant.

A buddy of mine is a sales manager for a VW dealership who reviews metrics etc. all the time. Apparently the MK7 GTI was the best cars to ever come out of a plant in Mexico. Specifically related to build quality, panel gapping, etc. Not sure how this was calculated, but it's a nice to know.

Makes me feel better.

 

[KevinC]

Observations/opinions from someone who's actually owned 3 Mk7/7.5's...

Wife had a'15 TDI out of Mexico. Fantastic car (other than that pesky emissions scandal that resulted in its buy-back). Shortly after she bought it, I bought a '16 R out of Wolfsburg. Zero difference in "build quality", by which I mean stuff like panel gaps, paint quality (excellent on both cars), overall fit/finish. Prior to that she drove a '09 Jetta TDI for 85k miles, also a fantastic car out of Puebla. This isn't surprising, given that the robots that perform body assembly/welding, painting, etc., are no doubt the same robots no matter which continent the plant is located in. I wound up unloading my '16 R for a '19 Mk7.5 at 50k miles (long story) and the paint job on the '19 is garbage. Plenty of stories of crappy paint from either plant.

Another variable that doesn't get discussed much is where all the components are coming from. Compare the Monroney on a GTI vs an R. The R's motor comes out of the Gyor, Hungary plant which has been building motors for ages for both Audi & VW. The GTI's motor comes out of a relatively recently built plant in Mexico. The parts content for a GTI has a lot of Mexican content (headlights, infotainment unit, tons of other stuff), whereas the same components in an R come from Germany or elsewhere in Europe. Same suppliers, just different factories on opposite sides of the world. Does this matter? I dunno. But this would concern me more than the "build quality" would. I don't care whether the guy bolting on a fender is named Hans or Jose. I do care about QC and how the suppliers run their foreign plants though. Stuff like different regulations (stringent in Europe, lax in Mexico) ***might*** be a factor in component quality.

 

[Boje]

Interesting take. Haven't driven an R, but I know what you're talking about with engagement. It's not just about shifting manually. It also takes a very delicate right foot to balance traction with maximum acceleration. Getting it right is very rewarding.

Exactly. Every drive in the GTI, whether it was 10 minutes or 10 hours, left me feeling rewarded, or slightly disappointed in myself if I got something not perfect, even if was just a quick sequence of rev-matched downshifts to a light or flooring it through the first three gears without spinning the tires. I loved that about it. I get out of the DSG R and I'm more like, yep, car still works.

Re: build quality, I don't know anything much about car manufacturing, but might it be more a result of VW needing the R to feel like a $45k car than where it's put together...? A lot of people pay in the low 20 thousands for a new GTI. At $38k+ for an R, people can reasonably expect a slightly higher build quality, and I feel like you could say something similar about the Autobahn trim on the GTI as far as the interior goes, anyway.

 

[RabbitTwo]

@Boje what market are you in where a new GTI is low-20s?

 

[bentin]

I mentioned the difference in build quality in another thread and got knocked for it, hard. Someone flat out called bullshit.

This point has come up many times. There's something to be said about the German made cars. They feel different.

I gave you a hard time about Mexico vs Germany as I’ve worked for a German company and their labor isn’t a magic workforce.

But I do agree that the Mk7 R does have enough different parts from the GTI that there is a sense of rigidity and solidness that is lacking from the Mk7 GTI. Some of that is obviously just having the drivetrain holding the back of the car to the front and the different rear subframe. Some is just the balance of different parts, even the hoods latch differently.

But I still hold that drunken Uzbeki could build either one and achieve the same thing. It has nothing to do with Germans building it vs Mexicans. Our Mexican built Q5 is more solid than any MQB car, not shocking, of course.

 

[Boje]

@Boje what market are you in where a new GTI is low-20s?

Oh dear haha did I get that wrong? I thought you could get a base GTI for ~$23/24k in the US? If not I stand corrected

 

[A2R]

I just bought a used 2020 GTI S for 28.9k so I think they start at around high 20s-low30s.

the car came with 7k miles and is already modded cosmetically how I would like it. 20% window tint all around, aftermarket wheels and tires.

Probably a members from here? Who sold a White MK7 GTI S trim w gold wheels?

Here she is!

As for build quality, definitely the higher quality materials on the R reflect it price point. I mean I definitely don’t remember a constant rattle from my A pillar. I felt like the door closing and lid shutting were tighter fitting and less gaps in panels etc. I have t done any scientific study it’s just a “feeling”But I still love my Mexican made GTI, I just bought another one!

I can’t wait to get a MK8 from Germany, maybe people will get the feeling when they go from MK7 GTI’s into MK8 GTIs from Germany. However the only real way to test it would be to get a MK7/8 Built in Mexico and one in Germany and then drive them back to back.

 

[Hyperlite]

So I finally got a chance to drive a 7.5R dsg and here my thoughts…

As others have mentioned, the R definitely feels a bit sturdier, more robust, and yes a bit heavier in the drive.

The one thing I wasn’t expecting was how noticeable the turbo lag was! Especially compared to my stage 1 GTI. There is a noticeable lull until about 3000 rpm, but when that is38 kicks in, my god does that thing fly! Is that something that can be remedied by a tune??

The AWD system is great. Never had an issue putting the power down, which is my biggest gripe with the GTI.

The digital dash is nice for sure, but not as big of a game changer as I was hoping. Once you’re on the road you’re more focused on the drive and not what your dash/dials look like.

The biggest takeaway though…the asking price. Over $44K CAD for a 2019!! The car did have only 9000 kms on it, but I think that’s pretty much MSRP when it was new. To make matters worse they offered me $17K for my 2015 Autobahn PP.

Other 7.5 R’s are going for $38-44K. Best case I get low 20’s for my GTI in a private sale. Then you add taxes and fees on top of it all. I think what I’ve concluded is that a 7.5 R is not $20,000 better than my GTI (and that’s a low estimate, my OTD price they offered on this particular car was over $28K!!) For that money I’d sooner get into a new Mk8.

So it looks like the GTI will be staying in the garage for a while yet, at least until 7.5 R prices start to come down. And truthfully, I’m not that upset about it. Driving my GTI home after test driving the R still brought a smile to my face

 

[Dog Dad Wagon]

The one thing I wasn’t expecting was how noticeable the turbo lag was! Especially compared to my stage 1 GTI. There is a noticeable lull until about 3000 rpm, but when that is38 kicks in, my god does that thing fly! Is that something that can be remedied by a tune??

Yes, a tune makes all the difference with sub-3K RPM power on the IS38

 

[Charlotte.:R]

Yes, a tune makes all the difference with sub-3K RPM power on the IS38

I still feel like the is20 has the edge. My wife has a B9 A4 and I have a 6mt R (both JB1) and I feel like the throttle tip in is better in the A4. Once off the line, it's easy enough to keep the R in the meat of the powerband.

 

[bentin]

I still feel like the is20 has the edge. My wife has a B9 A4 and I have a 6mt R (both JB1) and I feel like the throttle tip in is better in the A4. Once off the line, it's easy enough to keep the R in the meat of the powerband.

Some of that is the manual too. Our Audi throttle response is much, much better than my IS20. Of course there are a lot of differences in the motors too, not just the transmissions.

 

[Fastlax16]

The one thing I wasn’t expecting was how noticeable the turbo lag was! Especially compared to my stage 1 GTI.

It's give and take. There is more lag with the bigger turbo but I've always found GTIs struggle to put power to the ground at low speed/lower rpms anyway so the responsiveness is offset by the fact that you can't just open the car up and let it rip without excessive hop/spin. I had a stage 1+ Mk6 gti that I didn't really enjoy and my friends IS38 GTI was more or less worthless under 60 mph unless your idea of a good time is leaving tire marks everywhere. The tune definitely gives the R more power down low (and everywhere else).

 

[Dog Dad Wagon]

Yeah, the above is why I'm going IS20 on my Alltrack, not IS38. For daily driving I'd prefer low-end torque and mid-range power surge. With how tall the gears are on this car, I really don't need to be revving out to 6K+ RPMs. I'll just get a ticket. I've been at 0 points on my license for 2 years now, I am not keen to tack any back on.

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

Yeah, the above is why I'm going IS20 on my Alltrack, not IS38. For daily driving I'd prefer low-end torque and mid-range power surge. With how tall the gears are on this car, I really don't need to be revving out to 6K+ RPMs. I'll just get a ticket. I've been at 0 points on my license for 2 years now, I am not keen to tack any back on.

Yeah, but there's nothing like turbo lag slap. It's just so much fun.