APR Probem

[Raguvian]

Yep, for lugcentric there is really no need for the centering rings.

Yes, you don't need centering rings on lug centric wheels. I don't run rings on my lug centric wheels and have been called an idiot by a certain FB MQB group, but oh well.

I don't think OEM wheels are lug centric, however. They use ball seat lugs instead of tapered lugs.

 

[GTIfan99]

Lug centric wheels need to be torqued with the wheel off the ground if not hub centric or otherwise centered with rings, though. If not, you can end up with vibration..

 

[IanCH]

Ok I guess im gonna add to the chorus here - the hub centering is just to make it easier to get the wheel centered. The wheel is not centered on the hub...

 

[cb1111]

Thank you.

To clarify, I spoke with some others in the wheel industry to make sure I'm explaining things correctly here. Any wheel, with the correct hub centering ring, hub adapter, hub-centric ring, insert, or any other term you would like to use, is hub-centric if it matches the hub onto which it's installed. Hub-centricity simply means the wheel is centered via the hub, rather than relying on the lug-nuts to keep the wheel centered, which can be difficult to do. Without centering the wheel, you run the risk of wobbles amplified at speed, which is what you want to avoid. The main go-to solution for centering rings are these cheap orange plastic half rings that tend to crack, crumble, and melt. They aren't very good, are quite problematic, and are the source of most of the online debates about rings. We use a different material and style to quell these issues.

The hangup in the term "hub-centric" seems to fall around some saying this term cannot be used if a ring is used. I understand where you're coming from. However, this is not correct. The ring makes the wheel hub-centric. The centricity of the wheel becomes reliant on the hub, hence the term hub-centric vs other terms such as lug-centric. With respects to any suggestions of hub-centric nativity to the 57.1mm hub, our product page clearly indicates both hub sizes, and the use of an insert.

Thank you

I posed the question "should a wheel that uses a ring to properly fit a car be advertised as hubcentric?" to my old office - I asked about 10 people - automotive engineers, accident investigators, regulators - and all of them said "that's not hubcentric".

The conversation further went on that while the result (wheel plus ring) makes the combination hubcentric (i.e. it fits on the car as intended), it isn't what is normally considered hubcentric - the average person who understands this stuff expects something sold as hubcentric as not needing any adapters to make it fit as intended.

But what the hell do they know - they only regulate this stuff...

So you can continue to throw a tantrum to try to prove you're right - and you'll keep on pissing off customers, but that is your problem.

I'm out of this thread.

 

[Arin@APR]

your description of the wheel centerbore was so vague that someone had to clarify with you (on the second post) if the wheels actually came in two different CBs or if they used rings, so you already know it's a vague description. Someone who doesn't come to the forums and just went straight to the site would end up being confused.

Ok, I hear you. I'll look into this further and make a clarification on the site. Thank you for the feedback!

 

[Golfs everyday]

But keep alienating your customer base with your ego.

I don't think that is what he is doing. Considering the fact that he stuck around to explain shows he cares about the accuracy of the information they are publishing. I don't think that's ego.

And no I am not an APR user so you can dismiss all fanboi assumptions.

 

[Golfs everyday]

Yes, you don't need centering rings on lug centric wheels. I don't run rings on my lug centric wheels and have been called an idiot by a certain FB MQB group, but oh well.

I don't think OEM wheels are lug centric, however. They use ball seat lugs instead of tapered lugs.

You are not an idiot for not running centering rings on lugcentric wheels. Those rings are there so that clumsy folks like me can center the wheel on one try.

OEM wheels are hubcentric if they use ball type lugs, as you stated.

 

[Arin@APR]

I don't think that is what he is doing. Considering the fact that he stuck around to explain shows he cares about the accuracy of the information they are publishing. I don't think that's ego.

I seek to understand, clarify, discuss, and improve. We all have to take a step back and remember you can't read the tone of someone's voice over the internet. Authenticity is often lost on this medium.

 

[Raguvian]

You are not an idiot for not running centering rings on lugcentric wheels. Those rings are there so that clumsy folks like me can center the wheel on one try.

OEM wheels are hubcentric if they use ball type lugs, as you stated.

I'm also using studs, so getting the wheel onto the hub is way easier, so I decided that the rings weren't necessary.

GTI Jake said that he's using OEM Audi wheels (so I'm guessing 66.5 CB) without rings, but if those are using ball seat lug bolts, they're not lug centric and he should probably be using rings.

 

[Golfs everyday]

I'm also using studs, so getting the wheel onto the hub is way easier, so I decided that the rings weren't necessary.

GTI Jake said that he's using OEM Audi wheels (so I'm guessing 66.5 CB) without rings, but if those are using ball seat lug bolts, they're not lug centric and he should probably be using rings.

That's convenient. I use a single threaded wheel pin when I remove/install wheels on my Euro cars, well, including my A90 Supra. GTI Jake's post mentioned his wheels are lugcentric so he would not need rings. OEMS like to use ball type/or even washer type lugs (both hubcentric), but not all the time.

 

[maxwell]

I said this thread was stupid when OP bitched about ETA's, I stand by this statement watching everyone bitch about hubcentric rings.

I'm just going to add that I think manual transmissions are better than DSG's and anyone that disagrees is a moron. Let's fight about it.

 

[GTIfan99]

I don't think that is what he is doing. Considering the fact that he stuck around to explain shows he cares about the accuracy of the information they are publishing. I don't think that's ego.

And no I am not an APR user so you can dismiss all fanboi assumptions.

You don't have to be a fanboi to be wrong, so...

 

[GTIfan99]

Ok, I hear you. I'll look into this further and make a clarification on the site. Thank you for the feedback!

That right there should have been your first post. I'm glad you finally got there. I actually like APR's products so far, so nice to see. You should copy and paste this as your first response. It would have completely avoided the mess in this thread, the spring thread, and the coil pack thread. This is a move in the right direction. Always lead with this, then explain your position. It really does make your company look bad the way you handle these issues on the forum, even if one "actually" guy agrees with you.

 

[cospringsalltrack]

if the ring and the wheel are a system, and it centers around a hub, then I would think its hubcentric.

some of you guys are insane for wanting the description changed. you're the 0.05% of people that actually care, and from the description on APR's site, you can easily figure out that the wheel uses a ring to create a system to mount centrally on the hub. it literally tells you in the description

• Fits both VAG center bores - 66.5mm and 57.1mm
• Strong hub-centric rings lock into place, preventing wheel wobble via an interlocking hub-centric ring

adjective
adjective: centric

1. 1.
   in or at the center; central.
   "centric and peripheral forces"

noun
noun: hub; plural noun: hubs

1. 
   
2. 1.
   the central part of a wheel, rotating on or with the axle, and from which the spokes radiate.
   
   
   

 

[GTIfan99]

if the ring and the wheel are a system, and it centers around a hub, then I would think its hubcentric.

some of you guys are insane for wanting the description changed. you're the 0.05% of people that actually care, and from the description on APR's site, you can easily figure out that the wheel uses a ring to create a system to mount centrally on the hub. it literally tells you in the description

• Fits both VAG center bores - 66.5mm and 57.1mm
• Strong hub-centric rings lock into place, preventing wheel wobble via an interlocking hub-centric ring

adjective
adjective: centric

1. 1.
   in or at the center; central.
   "centric and peripheral forces"

noun
noun: hub; plural noun: hubs

1. 
   
2. 1.
   the central part of a wheel, rotating on or with the axle, and from which the spokes radiate.
   
   

Got it, so the rings are hub centric, not the wheels. That's what we've been telling Arin.