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Intercooler performance

anotero

Autocross Champion
Location
Hither and thither
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
I should have mine installed this week. I can get some logs using Torque or if you can do it with OBD11, I'll do that. If someone can just tell me what parameters, that'll be awesome.

Sounds good.

Parameters: ambient temperature, ambient pressure, IAT, engine RPM, vehicle speed, accelerator position, boost requested, boost actual, turbine actuator requested, turbine actuator actual. (the latter two may be called wastegate duty).
 

Diggs24

Autocross Champion
Location
de plains! de plains!
Car(s)
2015 GTI
 

Jovian

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Denver, CO
Car(s)
2016 VW GTI
There absolutely is a point where an IC cant keep up and the "step function manner" manner does apply. The stock intercooler is a fine example of this, it works acceptably on the stock tune and recovers enough to make due. Throw a stage 1 tune on and it struggles a bit more to recover when you get constant load or repetitive pulls. Once the intercooler cant reject heat enough to keep up, the ECU will start doing its thing and pull back timing and such to protect the engine. I have absolutely seen this with my stage1 tune and the stock intercooler, repeated pulls just keep compounding the issue of heat soak causing performance degradation.

So saying X intercooler cant keep up with hybrids but can with an IS38 is absolutely plausible. Just depends where the tipping point is and that can vary drastically due to environment, tune, how well the car is running. Its not a black and white thing but you can generalize saying in most situations this IC cant handle a hybrid. Like we have seen many times, certain cars are unicorns and can do something others cant, its very hard to compare cars against one another because of this but there are always outlyers and we most of the time throw that data away when making generalizations.

I appreshiate all the data Jeff creates and really urge him to continue doing so. But this specific article doesn't hold its own due to the information he is using is not complete nor his own. He doesn't know all the variables around the data so digging into it is a moot point. I would love to see Jeff get his hands on a AMS and put it right up with the IEv1 with his own testing.
 

Navi

Autocross Champion
Location
BK/NYC/Hamptons
There absolutely is a point where an IC cant keep up and the "step function manner" manner does apply. The stock intercooler is a fine example of this, it works acceptably on the stock tune and recovers enough to make due. Throw a stage 1 tune on and it struggles a bit more to recover when you get constant load or repetitive pulls. Once the intercooler cant reject heat enough to keep up, the ECU will start doing its thing and pull back timing and such to protect the engine. I have absolutely seen this with my stage1 tune and the stock intercooler, repeated pulls just keep compounding the issue of heat soak causing performance degradation.

So saying X intercooler cant keep up with hybrids but can with an IS38 is absolutely plausible. Just depends where the tipping point is and that can vary drastically due to environment, tune, how well the car is running. Its not a black and white thing but you can generalize saying in most situations this IC cant handle a hybrid. Like we have seen many times, certain cars are unicorns and can do something others cant, its very hard to compare cars against one another because of this but there are always outlyers and we most of the time throw that data away when making generalizations.

I appreshiate all the data Jeff creates and really urge him to continue doing so. But this specific article doesn't hold its own due to the information he is using is not complete nor his own. He doesn't know all the variables around the data so digging into it is a moot point. I would love to see Jeff get his hands on a AMS and put it right up with the IEv1 with his own testing.

yeah he shot himself in the foot in the first paragraph. There was a reason he was banned when he was pushing inlet pipes. Intercooler stuff is no different. Classic case of someone trying to objectively push data with subjective data lol.
 

GTI_Owner

Go Kart Champion
Location
USA
Car(s)
2016 GTI
There absolutely is a point where an IC cant keep up and the "step function manner" manner does apply. The stock intercooler is a fine example of this, it works acceptably on the stock tune and recovers enough to make due. Throw a stage 1 tune on and it struggles a bit more to recover when you get constant load or repetitive pulls. Once the intercooler cant reject heat enough to keep up, the ECU will start doing its thing and pull back timing and such to protect the engine. I have absolutely seen this with my stage1 tune and the stock intercooler, repeated pulls just keep compounding the issue of heat soak causing performance degradation.

So saying X intercooler cant keep up with hybrids but can with an IS38 is absolutely plausible. Just depends where the tipping point is and that can vary drastically due to environment, tune, how well the car is running. Its not a black and white thing but you can generalize saying in most situations this IC cant handle a hybrid. Like we have seen many times, certain cars are unicorns and can do something others cant, its very hard to compare cars against one another because of this but there are always outlyers and we most of the time throw that data away when making generalizations.

I appreshiate all the data Jeff creates and really urge him to continue doing so. But this specific article doesn't hold its own due to the information he is using is not complete nor his own. He doesn't know all the variables around the data so digging into it is a moot point. I would love to see Jeff get his hands on a AMS and put it right up with the IEv1 with his own testing.

Looking over what was posted "Products like intercoolers don’t perform in a step function manner; good w/ IS20, good w/ IS38, good w/ BT, bad w/ hybrid."

I though BT means Big Turbo, something larger than a hybrid. So it's questioning the claim that it works well with small and large turbos, but not hybrids, which occupy the middle. Putting on my engineer's hat, how does a turbo that fits in the middle of the range overwhelm the intercooler while the products on either end don't?
 

El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
Looking over what was posted "Products like intercoolers don’t perform in a step function manner; good w/ IS20, good w/ IS38, good w/ BT, bad w/ hybrid."

I though BT means Big Turbo, something larger than a hybrid. So it's questioning the claim that it works well with small and large turbos, but not hybrids, which occupy the middle. Putting on my engineer's hat, how does a turbo that fits in the middle of the range overwhelm the intercooler while the products on either end don't?
Would The the construction of a hybrid where the housings internal space being smaller while being modified to fit a larger turbine/compressor wheel generate more heat than say a Big turbo that’s say has the same turbine/compressor Size but also a larger internal housing play into this effect?
 
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DallasDub94

Go Kart Newbie
Location
DFW
Car(s)
18 GTI S
Would The the construction of a hybrid where the housings internal space being smaller while being modified to fit a larger turbine/compressor wheel generate more heat that say a Big turbo that’s say has the same turbine/compressor Size but also a larger internal housing play into this effect?
Yes. Beefed up internals + restrictive housing = lots of heat/pressure. Only so much performance can be had out of oem style housing before drawbacks become apparent.

Therefore a IC might be fine on full frame turbo and suffer on Hybrid. Can attempt to make all the boost in the world but if the housing is tiny and exhaust can't flow enough, things will break.
 
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