LSD important or not ?

[Strange Mud]

GT21......why get rid of civic? explain plz many of us are car guys and the civic seems nice (although the looks are not what I like)

 

[GTI-Jay]

i've had a couple of mk7 gti's. One with PP and VAQ and one without. Yes its absolutely 100% worth it. I can high speed corner with absolutely no understeer whatsoever on the PP, vs a screeching on the limit turn. I believe on the Nuremberg the VAQ lapped a whole 6 secs quicker than a non VAQ. That's a huge difference ! Anyway OP, go for it, as long as you can afford it.. I mean the Gti is a blast without it.. But once you'ev had it, you won't want to go back... Forget adding a wavetrack afterwards. Not only will you void your powertrain, but its a complex install, not a DIY. and if things go wrong, things get expensive.

 

[greens]

Excellent review here discussing the pros and cons of the GTI's non-mechanical LSD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYjEHQjEzMw

Personally I went with the base S model. I wanted the lightest weight possible with no sunroof and cloth interior. I don't plan to track the car, that's what my Miata is for, so I saw no real benefit to paying the extra to move up to the SE for a daily driver. It's a personal decision only you can make but honestly unless you're driving like you really shouldn't be on public roads then you'll hardly ever see a benefit from the LSD. If you plan to autocross or run DE then sure you will likely want to step up.

 

[Strange Mud]

Green,

you are correct about public roads and speed, but just for arguments sake why a GTI. A golf may have been good enough for you (and me!). I assume you wanted the extra performance the GTI gives....

not trying to insult, your line about personnel decision is spot on.

Mud

 

[gti211]

@strangemud to be honest the Civic is a great car but was not my first choice at the time. I had my Lexus lease expiring very soon so I told one of my buddies that I wanted a GTI to lease or buy. Well my buddy knew this guy at the VW dealership that is literally right next door to my job. I was already preapproved if I decided to finance the GTI. The lease program for GTI sucked by the way. I go and test drive the DSG version S trim level and fell in love with car. Long story short the sales guy kept dicking me around and did not want to get me a good deal on the car mind you this was fall of 2017 when the base models were selling for $21k in manual. He kept telling me that he had to wait for his manager to come in to get me the best deal. I told him give me a call tomorrow and let me know I have to turn in my lease this week. Douchebag never called me back so finally I said screw it and did an employee deal at my local Honda dealer for a Civic for the options and money it was giving me the best bang for my buck and in the event I wanted to sell it the re sale value would be pretty good. As you can see my GTI love is still very high lol.

 

[Jovian]

The LSD is pretty awesome and I’m sure glad I got it. That being said how often am I actually using it? Probably 1% of the time. My normal drive does not involve speed or hard cornering. I don’t track the car which is the biggest reason to have it. I do spirited drives in the mountains occasionally where is really does shine.

I don’t think the average GTI driver needs a LSD but if you are on this forum, likely you are an enthusiast and would appreciate it.

 

[gti211]

Excellent review here discussing the pros and cons of the GTI's non-mechanical LSD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYjEHQjEzMw

Personally I went with the base S model. I wanted the lightest weight possible with no sunroof and cloth interior. I don't plan to track the car, that's what my Miata is for, so I saw no real benefit to paying the extra to move up to the SE for a daily driver. It's a personal decision only you can make but honestly unless you're driving like you really shouldn't be on public roads then you'll hardly ever see a benefit from the LSD. If you plan to autocross or run DE then sure you will likely want to step up.

I don’t plan on tracking or autocrossing but I do plan on at the very lease doing a stage 1 apr tune with a down pipe and intake for spirited driving here and there. My reason for choosing the GTI is performance, quality interior design and its a hatchback

 

[CDM MK7]

It can make a huge difference. It's not so much a traditional LSD as it is an electronic Front Differential Locker. It has multiple advantages as well as disadvantages compared to a traditional LSD. That being said you can still put a traditional LSD into a GTI with the FDL. Most people who don't have it will tell you it isn't needed and doesn't do anything, but that's simply because they haven't actually driven a GTI with it. Those nay-sayers that have driven a car with it, complain it doesn't do anything, because they drive the car like it's a Prius but claim they are the next Ken Block.

Once you change the FDL to traction mode, it's night and day difference (similar from going from a punch card computer, to a modern day one, and when compared to a non-PP GTI, it's like the change from fighting with sticks and stones, to weapon of mass destruction). There is a reason the car is light years faster than the non-PP (from my point of view, 6-9 seconds a lap faster means the cars aren't even in the same class...even though obviously they are and in Motorsports you see lead times like that a lot).

Another tip is to not listen to anything anyone says if they don't have the 2.0T. The other engines are completely different and the same rules and upgrades don't apply. Displacement is king unless you care about MPG.

It's a notable difference in feel, but not a huge one for lap times in my experience. I've tracked both MK7's multiple times, own the non PP and track that often, and the split has been sometimes less than a second on the 1.9 mile road course I frequent, stock for stock (1:26s range) with the same/similar tires. AutoExpress in the UK did a test with the PP vs non-PP MK7 GTI's a year ago or so and they found the PP car was 1.6s faster around their track as well - however the PP equipped car also has bigger brakes and summer tires so take that FWIW.

The non PP car requires a less aggressive turn-in than the PP, that's for sure, but once you get the car sorted and straightened out mid corner it rockets out with little complaint. If you drive the non PP equipped car like it has an LSD than you're going to scrub off all sorts of time on track, however if you modify your line it does a formidable job. I definitely prefer the feel of the LSD equipped car ... if I overshoot a turn it does a much better job at sorting it self out and dragging the car out of corner, but if your line is spot on it's not a night and day difference IMO. I've been lapping at that track for over a decade with multiple cars, all Honda's equipped with LSD's (this MK7 GTI being my first open diff) and I'm not dissatisfied with the performance on circuit. Sticky tires and lightweight wheels help.

I'd go for the PP option if you can swing it, no doubt, but it's not a deal breaker. Certainly not putting the two cars in different classes in my experience. All depending on your plans for the car. YMMV of course.

 

[PLF8593]

GT21......why get rid of civic? explain plz many of us are car guys and the civic seems nice (although the looks are not what I like)

He has an Si not a Type R... They have 1.5L engines running like 20+ PSI from the factory to make 200HP. Need one say more?

 

[Wrath And Tears]

You might be talking about me...

I however have been purely trying to get the exact facts about the VAQ unit out there due to VW marketing dept (& only this dept) calling it a mechanical dif...which has lead to huge confusion..which is why I did that huge post on the VAQ unit...

I have always stated that for the money the "PP" option is a no brainer....however if you want racecar/track car & don't mind spending the money then don't get the "PP" & fit lighter & better aftermarket brakes & LSD...

horses for courses..

Hahaha, for once I wasn't actually talking about you . I know you aren't a fan of what VW did with the "PP", but you have always said it's good.

 

[golfdave]

Hahaha, for once I wasn't actually talking about you . I know you aren't a fan of what VW did with the "PP", but you have always said it's good.

I did wonder if my ears were burning..or it was the sun...

 

[XM_Rocks]

Excellent review here discussing the pros and cons of the GTI's non-mechanical LSD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYjEHQjEzMw

Personally I went with the base S model. I wanted the lightest weight possible with no sunroof and cloth interior. I don't plan to track the car, that's what my Miata is for, so I saw no real benefit to paying the extra to move up to the SE for a daily driver. It's a personal decision only you can make but honestly unless you're driving like you really shouldn't be on public roads then you'll hardly ever see a benefit from the LSD. If you plan to autocross or run DE then sure you will likely want to step up.

I disagree.

When deciding on which model to buy I drove 5 different configurations back to back on City Park Road (awesome hilly driving road here in Austin) and you could tell the PP vs non-PP on the street.

The PP car is much more tidy (neutral) when applying power mid-turn, with the non-PP car I could feel push/understeer.

 

[2SlowNoMo]

I would also add that the VAQ makes a big difference in straight line traction for putting down tuned power effectively. Stickier tires + VAQ means you can go harder off the line and put more of your HP to use. I agree I don't push the limits of cornering traction frequently when DD to work etc., but I often sneak in a hard pull through second maybe into third and the VAQ helps there as well. Overall fully agree with others on the many benefits of the VAQ. Definitely worth the money if it's at all in your price range.

 

[MK7Don]

Here is another perspective...

I bought a 2015 S base model with DSG. this is my daily and I absolutely love the car. When I bought it 3 years ago my budget only allowed for a used 2013-2014 GTI. I could have purchased a used one fully loaded, but I decided I wanted the new model with the new, better engine (IMHO).

Do I wish I had the LSD and the sunroof? For sure, but sometime you have to make choices. I decided I would go 3-4000 thousand over my budget to get the new one instead of a used one. So I gave up those things for those things to have a new car and I go not regret it one bit.

This car makes my boring daily drive fun again. To me that is what matters. So it is different for everyone.

 

[ILoveButter]

I always try to buy my cars with all the bells and whistles. An s wasnt even an option for me