Why can't service centers just change the oil properly?

[tigeo]

You're actually closer to correct than the other two responses based on the information I obtained prior to tuning my car.

Guidance for TD1 (as it relates to powertrain repairs) from VW to dealerships is to submit codes first (GFF log) and receive pre-authorization from VW before proceeding or risk (more likely than not) eating the total cost of the repair. VW will auto-deny powertrain warranty claims (systematic) if TD1 is present and the faults aren't related to known issues (TSB/recalls). If the faults are related to known issues (TSB/recalls), the submissions fall in a queue and get reviewed. So, auto-denial will occur as a systematic process and reviews only happen if faults are related to known issues (or the customer follows up with VWoA and opens a case). You will be directed to contact VWoA after the denial occurs (dealerships are told to do this with customers who question this denial/want to argue).

I confirmed first with a dealership shop foreman (mod friendly dealer where I bought my car) and then with a VWoA customer advocate, in case anyone is wondering.

I believe both of the people I spoke with because they both said the same thing (without me leading either of them to an answer) and this was exactly how Ford handled this as well. I sued Ford (and won) because of a denial of service/warranty claim related to my Getrag MT-82 transmission in my heavily modified Mustang (it went boom). Ford immediately denied the dealership's submission (same day, they told me this would happen) and a long process started. I made it all the way to arbitration with a good lawyer (related to me) and solid proof that the transmission had major issues (widespread, not specific to mine). Arbitrators (panel of three) collectively felt that I had more than enough proof to proceed in court (satisfied burden of proof) and ruled in my favor, that was enough to have Ford's lawyers approach us right after arbitration was over and offer me a deal I couldn't walk away from.

Tune your car, understand that you're going to fight to cover powertrain failures unless they're known issues... and even then, you may have to fight.

Nice write up and all sounds correct to me from my reading/research on the topic. I think teh hang up I have is the term "void". It's really a claim denial issue that as you say, you can push/take up with VW or use a lawyer if that is your thing. The other bit is the grey area of "power train" - thermostat housing would be a good one here - it's on the engine but not really a power train part and is often covered even if you are TD1. Turbo WGs have been covered while tuned as well. There are anomalies and that's where all the drama and discussion comes from.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Nice write up and all sounds correct to me from my reading/research on the topic. I think teh hang up I have is the term "void". It's really a claim denial issue that as you say, you can push/take up with VW or use a lawyer if that is your thing. The other bit is the grey area of "power train" - thermostat housing would be a good one here - it's on the engine but not really a power train part and is often covered even if you are TD1. Turbo WGs have been covered while tuned as well. There are anomalies and that's where all the drama and discussion comes from.

My warranty covered the thermostat housing repair while being hybrid turbo stage 3.

 

[cb1111]

Here's my TD1/warranty/tune write up that I post from time to time:

The warranty discussion is simple. If you flash the ECU and there are any powertrain-related warranty claims, those claims will be scrutinized under the lens that you modified/added more power - this will be referred to here in the VW online universe as "TD1". TD1 is a flag in the VAG system associated with your VIN that tells the dealer/warranty claim folks that your car has had it's ECU modified. It's automatically assigned when they scan the car a certain way and the dealer doesn't do it manually b/c "you are a scumbag tuner kid" or because "all dealers are out to get you" and I don’t care that your buddy’s friend’s sister’s brother works at a dealership and told her that he manually flags cars all day long – it’s BS. If VW think that this increase in power/modification caused or could have had anything to do with the failure, they will deny the claim. Simple and if I was the manufacturer, I'd do the same. VW can tell if you are/have been tuned if they have to do a scan to back the claim. If that is going to be a major financial issue for you, then don't tune it or go with a piggyback like the JB4 and be ready to remove it each and every time you go in to a dealer for service or warranty work - you also have to be ok with that in terms of the ethical considerations involved. I am tuned and have other hardware - I've had several warranty claims for some HVAC issues, recalls, and service campaigns - this is actually the crap that will be likely to fail vs. catastrophic engine/tranny failure everyone is so worried about. They were covered because they simply have zero do with the tune if they even looked for it for that type of claim (it's all about what VW requires the dealer to document to get paid for the warranty work/claim). If you did a poll here, most of the folks with off-the-shelf stage 1/2 tunes from the big players will have had no drama with their cars under the warranty period in terms of major failures that were denied because of the tune. Fact is, most cars never have major issues anyway. I've had 3 new cars in my life at 47, never once have I had more than nickle/dime crap fixed under warranty.

Which brings us back to the question that started this discussion - that a 2019 has a more valuable warranty than a 2020 - even if you have mods.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Which brings us back to the question that started this discussion - that a 2019 has a more valuable warranty than a 2020 - even if you have mods.

Which brings us back to potentially. That is regarding the powertrain warranty.

 

[launchd]

Which brings us back to the question that started this discussion - that a 2019 has a more valuable warranty than a 2020 - even if you have mods.

What’s the question exactly? That sounds more like a statement.

The six year warranty was Volkswagen’s response to the their dieselgate scandal. The hope was to win back people’s trust and confidence in their brand by producing headline-generating warranty coverage. Now that this is no longer needed (determined by their sales numbers I’m sure), they’re pivoting. They even admitted this themselves...

“Volkswagen is committed to listening and addressing the needs of its customers and dealers as we look to increase market share in the U.S. The previous warranty was a valuable tool to introduce customers to the Volkswagen brand and to give them peace of mind. Our new vehicle limited warranty builds upon those benefits by still providing robust coverage and further lowering the cost of ownership with carefree maintenance for the first two years.”

They absolutely benefit from this warranty change vs. their customer, I don’t even think that is a question though.

 

[cb1111]

Nice write up and all sounds correct to me from my reading/research on the topic. I think teh hang up I have is the term "void". It's really a claim denial issue that as you say, you can push/take up with VW or use a lawyer if that is your thing. The other bit is the grey area of "power train" - thermostat housing would be a good one here - it's on the engine but not really a power train part and is often covered even if you are TD1. Turbo WGs have been covered while tuned as well. There are anomalies and that's where all the drama and discussion comes from.

launchd's post is a bit too dealer centric.

Since VW started charging back warranty claims that they believed were questionable, dealers have been denying warranty claims that think have any chance of being denied by VW - and frequently blame that on VW.

Realistically, VW corporate really only denies those claims that are directly related to a mod or where a mod has a clear nexus to the failure - but the dealer may try to deny far more.

 

[cb1111]

Which brings us back to potentially. That is regarding the powertrain warranty.

The warranty covers far more than powertrain. For that matter, I'd opine that the vast majority of claims have nothing to do with powertrain.

 

[jimlloyd40]

The warranty covers far more than powertrain. For that matter, I'd opine that the vast majority of claims have nothing to do with powertrain.

That's why I said regarding the powertrain warranty.

 

[cb1111]

What’s the question exactly? That sounds more like a statement.

The six year warranty was Volkswagen’s response to the their dieselgate scandal. The hope was to win back people’s trust and confidence in their brand by producing headline-generating warranty coverage. Now that this is no longer needed (determined by their sales numbers I’m sure), they’re pivoting. They even admitted this themselves...

“Volkswagen is committed to listening and addressing the needs of its customers and dealers as we look to increase market share in the U.S. The previous warranty was a valuable tool to introduce customers to the Volkswagen brand and to give them peace of mind. Our new vehicle limited warranty builds upon those benefits by still providing robust coverage and further lowering the cost of ownership with carefree maintenance for the first two years.”

They absolutely benefit from this warranty change vs. their customer, I don’t even think that is a question though.

Right, but the 6/72 warranty is still more valuable than a 4/50 warranty regardless of the motivations behind the warranty.

 

[cb1111]

That's why I said regarding the powertrain warranty.

Jim, here are the posts

and

I think it is clear from the follow-on posts that a tune does not void any part of the warranty. You even admitted that VW fixed a leaking waterpump on your tuned car - and technically the waterpump (as part of the powerplant) is under the powertrain warranty. Back when VW had a 3/36 bumper to bumper and a longer powertrain, then the waterpump fell under the powertrain portion.

 

[tigeo]

The warranty covers far more than powertrain. For that matter, I'd opine that the vast majority of claims have nothing to do with powertrain.

Bingo.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Jim, here are the posts
View attachment 185863 and
View attachment 185864

I think it is clear from the follow-on posts that a tune does not void any part of the warranty. You even admitted that VW fixed a leaking waterpump on your tuned car - and technically the waterpump (as part of the powerplant) is under the powertrain warranty. Back when VW had a 3/36 bumper to bumper and a longer powertrain, then the waterpump fell under the powertrain portion.

Well VW must be fair enough to know that being tuned has nothing to do with a leaking thermostat housing especially considering the fact that VW would lose if it was contested because a leaking thermostat housing is so prevalent.

 

[seanmcd1]

How did this thread turn into to an old-fashioned "warranty voided or not" fight!?

 

[aaronc7]

what's the best oil?

 

[tigeo]

How did this thread turn into to an old-fashioned "warranty voided or not" fight!?

reasons