VW phone home (whether you like it or not)

[theDoktor]

Yesterday, I read the original investigative article that the following article discusses and has a hyperlink to the original investigative report embedded in it. I encourage everybody to read both articles, then come back and have a conversation about it.

https://jalopnik.com/your-modern-car-is-a-privacy-nightmare-1840483775

I think this is an important enough topic that I think that all of us need to have a conversation about ASAP. I downloaded the recommended Privacy4Cars app that was mentioned in the original Washington Post article on my smartphone, and, while connected to my GTI's infotainment system, cleared out all the stored data that might be there in just a few moments. But as soon as I did that, the following thoughts crossed my mind: How do I go forward with this issue from this point on? How often do I need to do this? Could it be that every time I connect my phone to my car, ET is phoning home? Are there hidden transmission &/or storage devices installed in our cars that we don't know about and can't access? The forensic engineer in the original article claims that he has found (hidden) 300gb storage devices in un-named German cars that apparently can't be accessed. There are a bunch of other questions out there on this topic/issue that I think we all need to be exploring and discussing.

I am in no way a techie, and have admittedly limited knowledge of the data collection and use worlds. So I welcome input from those who do have that knowledge.

 

[Corprin]

What data did your app find?

The article mentions the upload of data through the onstar cellular system, but what is your car is not equipped with such systems.

Well... Apple sells my shit to the highest bidder anyway.

Privacy in 2019 is an illusion.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[2018gti]

I think it’s a real concern, personally. I’m sure that Car-Net contains at least some security or we’d already be seeing Golfs being hacked in the news. But nothing is un-hackable, that’s just a fact. And if someone could access the module remotely and hack it to run their own programs, they could send anything they want on the CAN bus. Roll down windows, lock/unlock, lights, get into the infotainment, etc etc.

Do we know for sure what the Car-Net module is sending/receiving, even when a driver isn’t paying for the service? It would be really interesting to tap it somehow and see what data is going back and forth.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I think it’s a real concern, personally. I’m sure that Car-Net contains at least some security or we’d already be seeing Golfs being hacked in the news. But nothing is un-hackable, that’s just a fact. And if someone could access the module remotely and hack it to run their own programs, they could send anything they want on the CAN bus. Roll down windows, lock/unlock, lights, get into the infotainment, etc etc.

Do we know for sure what the Car-Net module is sending/receiving, even when a driver isn’t paying for the service? It would be really interesting to tap it somehow and see what data is going back and forth.

If you are paying for Car-Net why? What good is it? No it isn't sending or receiving anything if you don't have it.

 

[ReadTheBook]

Well... Apple sells my shit to the highest bidder anyway.

Facebook. Google. This forum, probably. Apple's not selling anything that I've seen, you should probably take some time to review their data collection and privacy policies.

 

[JC_451]

Your car app is just another brick in the wall when it comes to privacy concerns in this day and age.

If this is a real concern for you then it's basically time to go off grid. Or you could just wrap the car in aluminum foil.

 

[Corprin]

I have no delusions about my data, and how much it’s been leaked. The Chinese have everything on me down to my finger prints, and entire life history (thanks OPM and DoD).

I just assume that my phone and everything I touch is tracking me and selling or going to leak my data tomorrow.

I have been using the same false data on the web for so long (going on 23yrs now) legit websites and companies throw a fit when I use my actual birthday and/or name... because their “security checks” say I’m lying

 

[Mike-E]

If you have a smart phone, anyone with the money to pony up, knows everything about you, where you go, how fast you drive, your on-line ordering preferences, etc. Just accept it and live your life.

 

[theDoktor]

Apparently this un-regulated data "leakage" has been going on much longer than most of us realized. A good friend mentioned while discussing this article, that in the early 2000's, when a BMW drove on a dealers lot, the car would automatically do a data dump of all the stored data. When you walked in the door, they already knew everything about you and your car. And that was well before we had any of the data collection technology we now deal with. My friend was the Service Manager of one of the European car companies in the area at that time and had been working for Euro dealers for decades- he knew what was going on.
Were any of you aware of this data collection, particularly in that time period?
Related to this topic, have any of you read the recent NY Times article "Twelve Million Phones, One Dataset, Zero Privacy"? When we plug our smartphones into whatever infotainment system the car we are driving, we are just adding to the information we are freely giving away with no control or knowledge of who is getting it or how it is being used. Here's a link:
https://apple.news/AI5A4DYecNO6WuvMgtvfmgQ
I think I want to ditch my smartphone & find an old-fashioned flip phone replacement...

 

[jimlloyd40]

If you have a smart phone, anyone with the money to pony up, knows everything about you, where you go, how fast you drive, your on-line ordering preferences, etc. Just accept it and live your life.

If you have an Android phone and are on Android 10 there are more granular controls that allow you to prevent location tracking by almost all of the apps. Can't stop Google though even with location turned off. You can stop the how fast you drive by just not using any of the devices that monitor that. For online preferences use a VPN.

 

[theDoktor]

What data did your app find?

The article mentions the upload of data through the onstar cellular system, but what is your car is not equipped with such systems.

Well... Apple sells my shit to the highest bidder anyway.

Privacy in 2019 is an illusion.

It didn't indicate any data- it just took you thru the steps to reset the infotainment system back to the default setting & apparently cleared out all stored information. Killed my phone pairing too.
Who knows what is stored elsewhere on the car & is being transmitted by Car Net.

 

[777-300ER]

The car will phone home. Even base models have the car net box behind the gauge cluster, and it can be removed fairly easily.

 

[launchd]

This is not new. I can’t tell you how many rental cars I’ve gotten into and been able to see phone data from previous renters - contacts, previous calls made from the car, hell even GPS data... But this data is stored because these people are using the proprietary software from the manufacture. Ford has it’s Ford SYNC, Chevy/Buick/GMC has MyLink, KIA UVO, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/FIAT Uconnect and the list goes on. You do not have to use these proprietary solutions and instead (most of the time) can opt to use Android Auto or CarPlay. The only information that is stored locally as a result of using Android Auto/CarPlay is the HUID of the device. This serves one purpose, remembering your device so that you can easily connect it in the future.

 

[imthanick_a]

Yeah this stuff has been going on for years. Everything you say is "listened to" by your phone so they can target advertisements based on your conversations. Google is constantly looking at you and the people around you to target things. It will see that someone near you searched for something and then start recommending articles based on the person nearby since you were talking about it with them. Just wrap a few layers around your tin foil hat and forget about it, you can worry about it all you want but its not possible to stop companies from getting your online data