SCCA Street Touring discussion/setup (Formerly Street Touring Hatchback STH)

[Roald]

I had poked around at the bushings before the end of 2022. I made and saved a whole parts list along with the press. Came back after the first of the year and the SuperPro bushing had increased in price by a significant amount. Enough for me to reconsider doing them at all. Maybe they were just on sale at the time. I don't know. But yikes. As such I've moved them down the list pretty far given the perceived bang/buck ratio.

I went down a whole rabbit hole there for a bit. I think I may have overestimated the cost on the bushings. I basically priced out a complete swap, and now I'm realizing I need like ..2?
Front Control Lower -Inner Rear
Rear Trailing Arm Bushing Kit
^ Is that right?

How beneficial will the intercooler really be for autox? It seems a lot of the heat soak would occur after the lap is complete? - sorry I'm not sure if this thread is the right place for this discussion. Has anyone done testing in this environment?

In your experience how much will I regret not doing a FSB and or RSB as well? I was thinking based on the information floating around and my spring rates that maybe I could get away w/o doing them.
Buuutttttt, the HR kit is on sale right now over at Uro. And I am going to have the thing apart for the coilover install....

 

[bfury5]

Majority of tire wear remains at the outside edge. Car is well balanced on current setup, but I'm always looking to maximize front grip. Saw a 2022 GR86 running -4.3 and he had incredible front grip.

Silvers Neomax coilovers with 10k/14k Swift springs ( re-valved by Randy O’Brien), 034 ball joints and front sway bar end links, Eurocode front chassis brace, H&R 25mm rear sway bar w/Moog end links, 034 Rear Subframe Mount Inserts. -3.7 front/-2.2 rear camber, zero toe.

I posted the same question in another thread and was advised tie rod length should be fine (from someone running -6 front).

View attachment 269669

What size tire + wheel combo are you running?

Not STH, but got to drive an MR in ES. Holy cow what an eye opener. It gripped in corners at speeds it had no right to & that my Golf would've never done. I guess 2100 lbs, mid engine, rwd with 245 RE71RS will do that.

I was 2 seconds off pace of car owner(who's usually top 3 PAX), but was within a couple tenths of pace of other ES drivers. Being my first time in his car & first time driving a rwd since drifting my 92 B2600 on dirt roads 25 years ago. I'm happy with it.

Was 33rd out of 195 where I'm usually mid pack.

I drove a ton of different cars last year, and while I miss the GTI it's been great to get different perspectives. MR2, S2000 C5Z, NA/ ND Miata's, Fiata, etc. All super fun

I had poked around at the bushings before the end of 2022. I made and saved a whole parts list along with the press. Came back after the first of the year and the SuperPro bushing had increased in price by a significant amount. Enough for me to reconsider doing them at all. Maybe they were just on sale at the time. I don't know. But yikes. As such I've moved them down the list pretty far given the perceived bang/buck ratio.

I went down a whole rabbit hole there for a bit. I think I may have overestimated the cost on the bushings. I basically priced out a complete swap, and now I'm realizing I need like ..2?
Front Control Lower -Inner Rear
Rear Trailing Arm Bushing Kit
^ Is that right?

How beneficial will the intercooler really be for autox? It seems a lot of the heat soak would occur after the lap is complete? - sorry I'm not sure if this thread is the right place for this discussion. Has anyone done testing in this environment?

In your experience how much will I regret not doing a FSB and or RSB as well? I was thinking based on the information floating around and my spring rates that maybe I could get away w/o doing them.
Buuutttttt, the HR kit is on sale right now over at Uro. And I am going to have the thing apart for the coilover install....

After the coils, I would say front LCA bushings (front and rear locations) should be a must. Do the offset forward bushing for added camber and a solid rear bushing to reduce compliance. You'll notice an immediate improvement on turn-in and you'll have better confidence in the car at speed.

I'd usually say skip the intercooler, but since you're tuned it's probably worth it. I never ran one but had stock tune.

RSB was great to have as a tuning tool, and very easy to do. My springrates were ~550/900 and based on surface condition I'd stiffen the rear if needed (as well as playing with dampers).

I never did rear end suspension bushings. If you have the itch you need to scratch then I guess do them, but I never felt held back without them.

+1 to the diff as mentioned earlier. Largest investment by far but probably most benefit. I wish I had done that to my car.

 

[Roald]

I'm just now realizing that the H&R bars I was looking at doesn't have a rear adjustable bar....
So the question now is, who has a good quality solid front and rear bar that's adjustable?
034 seems to the the only solid ones I've come across so far for f/r but the general 034 reviews have me sketched out to try those.

Superpro has a solid kit that's adjustable but they're hollow. Is this really a big deal if it's a good manufacturer?

 

[bfury5]

I'm just now realizing that the H&R bars I was looking at doesn't have a rear adjustable bar....
So the question now is, who has a good quality solid front and rear bar that's adjustable?
034 seems to the the only solid ones I've come across so far for f/r but the general 034 reviews have me sketched out to try those.

I had the 034 rear bar and it was fine. I re-greased it about 2x per year (beginning and middle of season) just to keep everything clean. Never made any noise or bound up for me. I had used superpro end links but they got destroyed in 2mo. I switched to Moog for a year straight after that with no issue.

 

[bfury5]

I was running Enkei TS-10 18x8/ET45, with 245/40-18 RT660's on the Alltrack, but now have Apex VS-5RS 17x9/ET42, with 255/40-17 Yokohama A052s. Am switching between sets of wheels to use up the RT660s as they have runs left in them.

Stumbled across a screaming deal on a used Mishimoto intercooler and got it installed 2 weeks ago (my Alltrack has IS20 with APR Stage 3, 91 octane tune). Last summer a friend data logged my car and IAT was 170 in grid on a 95 degree day, dropped to mid 150’s at the start line and only dipped to 135 during the run. So I believe the intercooler will help a lot in the summer months.

I’d like to do the bushing upgrades you described, maybe at a later date. I’m very pleased with the Alltrack as it’s currently setup, and will leave the front camber at -3.7 for now.

Driver improvement is my current focus. ;-)

Once the 255s are worn, throw a set of 245s on the 17x9s. You should see better wear and similar alternate grip. The yoks are super soft and prefer a bit of a stretch.

And +1 on that last point - consistent seat time is key! Regardless of improvement, hope it's fun

 

[scrllock]

I'm just now realizing that the H&R bars I was looking at doesn't have a rear adjustable bar....
So the question now is, who has a good quality solid front and rear bar that's adjustable?
034 seems to the the only solid ones I've come across so far for f/r but the general 034 reviews have me sketched out to try those.

Superpro has a solid kit that's adjustable but they're hollow. Is this really a big deal if it's a good manufacturer?

I've been happy with my superpro bars front and rear. I like the zerk-fittings on the 034 bushings but you can get those from neuspeed or ECS for most bar diameters. Superpro endlinks aren't that great. Have whiteline in the rear and likely swapping the front for powergrid.

The bushings I found to be most noticeable are the front LCA and the rear trailing arm. I'm not sure if you can run the adjustable LCA bushings with camber plates, I think that's been debated here before.

Intercooler goes up in benefit as you add a tune / more power. Easily the number one power mod after a tune.

 

[odessa.filez]

STH is my place to stay long term.
What should I put on deck after the coilovers? Seems like it's diminishing returns possibly past this point. Am I missing anything big for STH?

Camber and caster, as much as you can get in the rules

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Redshift Kit should be here around the end of March. doing 8f/10r springs and adjustment up to an inch, will likely settle around -.25" -.5"
First test and tune for us is April 16 ( pending weather )
And I just completed an EQT stage 1 91 tune. ( also replaced and checked plugs )

I don't have any other mods currently. Tires are 615k+ which were okay last year, but given my experience with them I suspect I'll find their limit with the suspension changes this year. They still have plenty of life and I'm not interested in cycling them out early. I'll run them dead before I replace them.

I'm going to wait until at least the first few events are completed before deciding fsb/rsb. I'm not entirely sure where I'll land there.

Otherwise I'm considering
BMS CC
TIP / Pipe / drop in filter
Scroth quick fit
fsb and/or rsb pending coil over results

STH is my place to stay long term.
What should I put on deck after the coilovers? Seems like it's diminishing returns possibly past this point. Am I missing anything big for STH?

8/10 kg springs are relatively light. I would definitely get a front/rear bar. Maybe even consider more rear spring like 12kg, or 700 in/lbs.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Also, alignment is super key, and I don't mean camber.

Zero or some toe out front for turn-in, rear toe zero to a little out for rear rotation. This is the more beneficial tuning method for rear rotation vs. messing up the front/rear wheel rates/roll couple.

Not everyone agrees with me, but I have yet to be proven wrong.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Also, see my signature for other helpful links.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...ay-bars-or-both-and-more.384453/#post-7650381

Thanks for bringing your discussion to this very appropriate thread.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

I had poked around at the bushings before the end of 2022. I made and saved a whole parts list along with the press. Came back after the first of the year and the SuperPro bushing had increased in price by a significant amount. Enough for me to reconsider doing them at all. Maybe they were just on sale at the time. I don't know. But yikes. As such I've moved them down the list pretty far given the perceived bang/buck ratio.

I went down a whole rabbit hole there for a bit. I think I may have overestimated the cost on the bushings. I basically priced out a complete swap, and now I'm realizing I need like ..2?
Front Control Lower -Inner Rear
Rear Trailing Arm Bushing Kit
^ Is that right?

How beneficial will the intercooler really be for autox? It seems a lot of the heat soak would occur after the lap is complete? - sorry I'm not sure if this thread is the right place for this discussion. Has anyone done testing in this environment?

In your experience how much will I regret not doing a FSB and or RSB as well? I was thinking based on the information floating around and my spring rates that maybe I could get away w/o doing them.
Buuutttttt, the HR kit is on sale right now over at Uro. And I am going to have the thing apart for the coilover install....

I would get the front lower forward offset bushing for more camber.

https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/p...ont-bushings-camber-adjustable-2876#attr=1795

And yes, combined with an adjustable top plate is legal.

 

[Roald]

Okay yeah I've spent a lot of time looking over the suspension threads in the last few months. I've got the f/r super pro 24/22mm bars on order and I'll get better links as well before the install. I know these are on the softer side for Sway bars but I believe it will still give me the ability to have some wheel indepence on the more dynamic surface I run at on occasion and they're adjustable.
I also fully intend to get an alignment after I install everything and so far I'm looking to start with something like this and work from there:


When I was first talking this over with RedShift Chris mentioned the MK7 is capable of about -3 degrees camber. I see some things around about the top strut hole maybe not allowing so much because of the dampening adjustment, but I think the RedShift Coils are inverted so this should be possible?
If so-

Front
-2 /-2.5 camber . I still need to manage DD tire wear. Possibly up to the full -3
zero toe. - I see folks say "as much as possible up front" But would an extra .5 upfront with a bushing be that big? Especially beyond -3?

no plans for caster adjustment via parts at this time.

Rear
zero toe - then possibly up to 1/16" out on each side for rotation. I think I recall this being only +1 degree or there about
Whatever max camber I can claim from the rear.



Beyond this I would say that the front bushing is moving up the list. I completely misunderstood which I even needed. so this is much less of a big deal. $100~ for better response is a great trade off I think.
Then an intercooler- still trying to decide which. I think I'm down to the SMICs - APR- Mishimoto and IE. There's a cts that's significantly less expensive but I'm not getting a good vibe from reviews on quality.

 

[GTIfan99]

Okay yeah I've spent a lot of time looking over the suspension threads in the last few months. I've got the f/r super pro 24/22mm bars on order and I'll get better links as well before the install. I know these are on the softer side for Sway bars but I believe it will still give me the ability to have some wheel indepence on the more dynamic surface I run at on occasion and they're adjustable.
I also fully intend to get an alignment after I install everything and so far I'm looking to start with something like this and work from there:


When I was first talking this over with RedShift Chris mentioned the MK7 is capable of about -3 degrees camber. I see some things around about the top strut hole maybe not allowing so much because of the dampening adjustment, but I think the RedShift Coils are inverted so this should be possible?
If so-

Front
-2 /-2.5 camber . I still need to manage DD tire wear. Possibly up to the full -3
zero toe. - I see folks say "as much as possible up front" But would an extra .5 upfront with a bushing be that big? Especially beyond -3?

no plans for caster adjustment via parts at this time.

Rear
zero toe - then possibly up to 1/16" out on each side for rotation. I think I recall this being only +1 degree or there about
Whatever max camber I can claim from the rear.



Beyond this I would say that the front bushing is moving up the list. I completely misunderstood which I even needed. so this is much less of a big deal. $100~ for better response is a great trade off I think.
Then an intercooler- still trying to decide which. I think I'm down to the SMICs - APR- Mishimoto and IE. There's a cts that's significantly less expensive but I'm not getting a good vibe from reviews on quality.

Unless you're going to nationals, or running on concrete, most autocross sites are pretty low grip, so being a little softer isn't a bad thing.

 

[Roald]

Unless you're going to nationals, or running on concrete, most autocross sites are pretty low grip, so being a little softer isn't a bad thing.

The lot we run at in Cincy is.... wild. It's an old lot, but it's way bigger than my local Columbus lot is. The surface is very loose and the pavement has buckled and heaved all over the place. I only ran it once last year for one of my first events and it was a wild time. I was still on all seasons at the time too. I'm pretty sure it was this event that I nearly completely cooked my all seasons.
There's a third place nearby in Xenia/sw ohio that's on part of a short oval course and infield area so going super hard I think is just not an option.

 

[GTIfan99]

The lot we run at in Cincy is.... wild. It's an old lot, but it's way bigger than my local Columbus lot is. The surface is very loose and the pavement has buckled and heaved all over the place. I only ran it once last year for one of my first events and it was a wild time. I was still on all seasons at the time too. I'm pretty sure it was this event that I nearly completely cooked my all seasons.
There's a third place nearby in Xenia/sw ohio that's on part of a short oval course and infield area so going super hard I think is just not an option.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Low grip surfaces need something similar to a rain setup.