mrmatto
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Jacksonville, FL
- Car(s)
- 2024 GTI DSG
I've always enjoyed Grand Tourers -- cars that balance sportiness with luxury and comfort. To me, this concept is the pinnacle of a daily driver. Whether you're an aging millennial like myself, a full-on old fart, or shuttling a family around during the week while giving it the beans on the weekend, balance can be a nice and necessary thing. Stock, the GTI has most of the GT qualities (it's in the name, durrrr). It is pretty comfortable, pretty nice, pretty sporty, and pretty practical -- a well-balanced car -- but it leaves some room for improvement in these categories.
So, I am on a quest to build my GTI (daily + autocross 1-2x/month) into a Grand Tourer. We seem to be missing much discussion on this particular type of build. The below info are things I've done to my GTI, have researched and am planning to do (thanks to all the folks I've bothered with questions), or have done on other cars. If you're interested in optimizing your GTI as a Ground Tourer, this discussion is for you.
#1 Rule: You're building this car for yourself and for balance. Ditch the mindset of trying to impress other people or fit into a narrow niche, as that will likely lead you down the wrong path. Grand Touring is all about balance and minimizing tradeoffs -- not going so far in one direction that you lose another important quality (i.e. optimizing so much for handling that you sacrifice comfort). This will probably annoy people who say "you need to do x, x, x, and x to be the best at y" -- but that's OK because that's not the spirit of what we're doing here.
Suspension
This is a major component of a good GT car and it is subjective because we all have different tolerances. I think this is an easy one because I like the stock ride height.
I waver back and forth on this one...
Stock brakes are OK, more so if you have the Performance Pack. But if you're going to be pushing the car, pads that can better handle the heat is a good idea. A good GT car has "plenty of brakes" so ideally, you never want to feel like you've over-taxed your brakes or caused them to start shaking due to pad deposits on the rotors. There are plenty of middle-ground brakes that are street friendly and quiet, while using compounds that hold up to heavy usage better. And no, you almost surely don't need cross-drilled or slotted rotors for this kind of a build.
Interior/Convenience
Stock interior comfort and convenience is pretty good, but a handful of relatively easy things can elevate it:
Whatever you like! Personally, I think a good GT car is classy with smooth lines and our Golfs have a lovely understated sportiness. Lots of aero and tarty mods ruin the look.
Engine/Transmission/Exhaust
wHy DoN'T yOu JuSt BuY aN aUdi?
Because hatchback.
Alright, that's all I got. Feel free to add any suggestions, links, etc. that you think are valuable to this type of build.
So, I am on a quest to build my GTI (daily + autocross 1-2x/month) into a Grand Tourer. We seem to be missing much discussion on this particular type of build. The below info are things I've done to my GTI, have researched and am planning to do (thanks to all the folks I've bothered with questions), or have done on other cars. If you're interested in optimizing your GTI as a Ground Tourer, this discussion is for you.
#1 Rule: You're building this car for yourself and for balance. Ditch the mindset of trying to impress other people or fit into a narrow niche, as that will likely lead you down the wrong path. Grand Touring is all about balance and minimizing tradeoffs -- not going so far in one direction that you lose another important quality (i.e. optimizing so much for handling that you sacrifice comfort). This will probably annoy people who say "you need to do x, x, x, and x to be the best at y" -- but that's OK because that's not the spirit of what we're doing here.
Suspension
This is a major component of a good GT car and it is subjective because we all have different tolerances. I think this is an easy one because I like the stock ride height.
- Fat rear sway bar to make the handling slightly flatter, more lively, and allow some oversteer on the weekend without hurting ride quality. Easy and inexpensive upgrade.
- Rear hatch brace to help tighten up some of the body flex, again without hurting ride quality. There are a few options that still allow you to close up your rear seats. Another easy and inexpensive upgrade.
- Ride quality-wise, you want control and composure without harshness. You shouldn't be jarred by normal impacts and road irregularities, but you don't want to lose sporty handling because that's why we bought the GTI.
- You may like the stock suspension. Great! I find it a bit uncontrolled and harsh with room for improvement
- One option to help with that: Koni Special Active dampers to iron out the rough stuff and reduce harshness, while creating slightly firmer and flatter handling. (These dampers are meant for stock springs only.)
- If you have DCC, you may already have that GT balance.
- Or you may be happy with sportier dampers but remember rule #1. Again, it's about balance so don't take it too far.
- Tires can have a lot to do with this. It can be tough to find a tire that will hold up to weekend shenanigans while also being tame and composed on the street.
- This will be a good place to add setups from others users they have found to be balanced in GT spirit.
- Low-NVH camber mounts for a bit more negative camber up front. Gets you more responsive handling and turn-in. This is optional, depending on what you do with your car on the weekend.
- Sort out any creaks and clunks with fresh bushings and hardware. Nothing ruins the enjoyment of a good ride like a janky-sounding suspension.
- I can't provide recommendations on how to achieve a balanced suspension if you lower the car. In my experience, a lowered suspension will always ride harsher and firmer than stock. But it may still strike a balance you're happy with.
I waver back and forth on this one...
- Downsizing to 17" wheels with 235/45-17 tires would provide enough sidewall to clean up the ride a bit, and you can still put a performance tire on there that won't totally roll over when it's pushed. And if you add the sidewall cushioning, you may not need special dampers to reduce harshness and could instead go with something like the Bilstein B6 or even Koni Sports.
- However, it's hard to beat the responsiveness of the stock 18" setup with 225/40 or 235/40 tires.
- As far as which tires, this is going to depend on your driving style and climate. Michelin PS4S are often the top recommended tire for a reason, and they come on a lot of the great high-end GT cars for a reason. But they're not your only option. Make heavy use of Tire Rack's tests and reviews to find tires that perform well on both the track and street. Take special note of how TR characterizes impacts, road noise, and responsiveness.
Stock brakes are OK, more so if you have the Performance Pack. But if you're going to be pushing the car, pads that can better handle the heat is a good idea. A good GT car has "plenty of brakes" so ideally, you never want to feel like you've over-taxed your brakes or caused them to start shaking due to pad deposits on the rotors. There are plenty of middle-ground brakes that are street friendly and quiet, while using compounds that hold up to heavy usage better. And no, you almost surely don't need cross-drilled or slotted rotors for this kind of a build.
Interior/Convenience
Stock interior comfort and convenience is pretty good, but a handful of relatively easy things can elevate it:
- Spacers under the front seat bolts to increase the seat rake. This creates much better thigh support and comfort for a 6'1" human with long legs like me.
- Some extra foam in the lumbar area. The stock manual seats don't have much lumbar support IMO, even at the max setting. OK for short drives, but I tend to need a little more support on long drives.
- I'm an MIB1 peasant, so a MIB2 retrofit to get Apple Carplay/Android Auto some day would be a nice upgrade, but not cheap. This is one of those "I want it but can't justify the money for it" things.
- Spend some time hunting down creaks and rattles. Arm yourself with adhesive felt, Tesa tape, and memory foam, then get someone else to drive the car while you crawl around the cabin. Adhesive felt is used the most to cushion and tighten, Tesa tape is for small parts and tight clearances, and the memory foam can be shoved behind panels that are slightly loose or have rattling clips (don't block any airbags).
- Depending on your tires, you might benefit from some additional sound deadening. It gets expensive quickly, but can make a big difference if you're willing to pull seats, carpet, and panels out to do it properly.
- Audio upgrades are worth considering, but it's totally subjective. Don't buy audio equipment just because someone says you should -- what sounds good to your ears is 100% your call. I think the stock base tweeters are extremely harsh, so I plan to swap them out.
- Tint those windows. A high quality ceramic tint will do wonders for keeping heat out on hot days.
- Consider other little enhancements that make life easier like a wireless charging pad, toll road transponder, line your door pockets and glove box with felt (if you have a 7.5 that came without that), an organizer in the trunk, etc.
- Rear wiper.
Whatever you like! Personally, I think a good GT car is classy with smooth lines and our Golfs have a lovely understated sportiness. Lots of aero and tarty mods ruin the look.
Engine/Transmission/Exhaust
- A good ECU and TCU tune (if you're DSG) is nice. Having the extra power and an enjoyable transmission really aids day-to-day life in the car. But I don't think it's necessary with these cars. If you're manual, think about what that means for your clutch and carefully consider your clutch options and modifications to favor smoothness when you can.
- An upgraded intercooler is nice on this platform if you like power consistency.
- Stock-ish exhaust, or something high quality with minimal drone. Being able to have a quiet, comfortable cruise is an important part of a Grand Tourer. Any drone will make long trips tiring and annoying.
wHy DoN'T yOu JuSt BuY aN aUdi?
Because hatchback.
Alright, that's all I got. Feel free to add any suggestions, links, etc. that you think are valuable to this type of build.
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. The sport seats are pretty comfortable. It even has the extendable thigh support. It also has a 2.0 turbo. I added the Neuspeed Power module to give it a bit more kick. You can definitely feel the BMW trickle down in that car. What kills the "comfort" of that car is the suspension. Its pretty harsh...but if you put come soft squishy suspension combo in there...then it'll loose that nimble feeling.
