New law suit over VW water pumps

[cb1111]

Two things:

First and foremost, there is virtually no way that a warranty is "voided". You may have mods on your car that may cause the manufacturer to refuse warranty service on a particular failure because they believe that your mod contributed to, or caused, the failure.

I know of only a few cases where a warranty was voided. Mitsubishi voided the warranty on a bunch of cars that they saw at the track. They noted VINs and sent the owners letters - not really sure if that ever went to litigation.

The second was a car that was so heavily (and badly) modded that there was virtually no system that was left untouched. Because the owner tried to cover up the mods (and caused more damage), the manufacturer said "you've screwed up this car so bad that we won't touch it.

Cars with branded/salvage titles will often have no warranty. Odometer tampering is another example.

The second is a little story about class actions. Yes, the compensation is often insignificant, but car settlements often result in extended warranties.

In the mid 90's, I bought a Yukon - a great car that I should have kept. A year later, I got the class action lawsuit paperwork that essentially said "check this box if the size of the gas tank was a primary reason for choosing this car." It turns out that the gas tank size was 19 and a half gallons when it was actually 19 and a quarter.

I checked the box and sent it back. A couple of years later I got a coupon in the mail for $800 towards the purchase of any GM vehicle.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Two things:

First and foremost, there is virtually no way that a warranty is "voided". You may have mods on your car that may cause the manufacturer to refuse warranty service on a particular failure because they believe that your mod contributed to, or caused, the failure.

I know of only a few cases where a warranty was voided. Mitsubishi voided the warranty on a bunch of cars that they saw at the track. They noted VINs and sent the owners letters - not really sure if that ever went to litigation.

The second was a car that was so heavily (and badly) modded that there was virtually no system that was left untouched. Because the owner tried to cover up the mods (and caused more damage), the manufacturer said "you've screwed up this car so bad that we won't touch it.

Cars with branded/salvage titles will often have no warranty. Odometer tampering is another example.

The second is a little story about class actions. Yes, the compensation is often insignificant, but car settlements often result in extended warranties.

In the mid 90's, I bought a Yukon - a great car that I should have kept. A year later, I got the class action lawsuit paperwork that essentially said "check this box if the size of the gas tank was a primary reason for choosing this car." It turns out that the gas tank size was 19 and a half gallons when it was actually 19 and a quarter.

I checked the box and sent it back. A couple of years later I got a coupon in the mail for $800 towards the purchase of any GM vehicle.

Pretty hard to believe there was a class action lawsuit about 1 quart of gas.

 

[cb1111]

Pretty hard to believe there was a class action lawsuit about 1 quart of gas.

With all the years I've spent in civil rights, I was always surprised what people tried to pawn off as a class action. That's why class actions are a multi step process - one of the first is to get the class certified but there is no decision if the complaint is frivolous.

I think GM used this as a marketing ploy - a big settlement that few will use, but the money goes right back to them.

 

[gixxerfool]

I think GM used this as a marketing ploy - a big settlement that few will use, but the money goes right back to them.

This is kind of the crux of it all. They gambled and really didn’t lose. More than likely most people wouldn’t have used the voucher in time and even if they did, they’re not losing money at all. So really the lawyers make money, but the people who spent it on the products and got shafted get nothing out of it substantially.

Over the years I have been included in well over a dozen class action lawsuits. Monetarily, I recouped maybe $50 total in actual money. I got some free services fraud protection for a year, that sort of thing. The only ones I really got anything out of was a battery one for my iPhone. I was about to buy a new one. Got the notice to get my current one replaced free and got another year out of it.

 

[cb1111]

This is kind of the crux of it all. They gambled and really didn’t lose. More than likely most people wouldn’t have used the voucher in time and even if they did, they’re not losing money at all. So really the lawyers make money, but the people who spent it on the products and got shafted get nothing out of it substantially.

Over the years I have been included in well over a dozen class action lawsuits. Monetarily, I recouped maybe $50 total in actual money. I got some free services fraud protection for a year, that sort of thing. The only ones I really got anything out of was a battery one for my iPhone. I was about to buy a new one. Got the notice to get my current one replaced free and got another year out of it.

Yeah, I think the most I got was $18 on the HP printer settlement, another $15 or so on the Dell battery one and another $20 or so on the Vizio TV one.

 

[HelloNewman]

I got 2 free cases of Redbull in the settlement for the guy that sued Redbull for false advertising with the slogan "Redbull gives you wings" when it did not in face give you wings. As far as the water pump recall is concerned has anyone had any success claiming this outside of warranty? I reported coolant leaks inside of the warranty period and they told me nothing was wrong. Now I'm outside of it and I have to top off the coolant every three months or so.

 

[gixxerfool]

I got 2 free cases of Redbull in the settlement for the guy that sued Redbull for false advertising with the slogan "Redbull gives you wings" when it did not in face give you wings. As far as the water pump recall is concerned has anyone had any success claiming this outside of warranty? I reported coolant leaks inside of the warranty period and they told me nothing was wrong. Now I'm outside of it and I have to top off the coolant every three months or so.

If you have dealer based complaints inside of the warranty period, I would use that as leverage. If the dealer doesn’t want to help you, which they have the power to without manufacturer authorization, then I would contact VWoA and let them know the situation. Be firm, but not an asshole will take you far. Stick to the facts and present your case. I have used internet information, ie threads in forums, to prove my case in situations like these. It may be anecdotal, but hardly easy to deny.

 

[RennWerks]

I'm coming in late on this one for which I apologize. I just feel compelled to contribute my 2-cents. (Pls excuse the inevitable typos.)

I have a long history with both air- and water-cooled V-Dubs. Two of my undergraduate years in the 1960s were subsidized (in a sense) by my VW employer. Years later, I owned one of the first 300 V-Dub Rabbits imported. It was a classic "loss leader" ($2999.00) for both the manufacturer and the dealer in question. I could go on for a pages describing all the things it did not have -- like carpeting; there was none in the back. The floor and the tar-flooring were simply spray painted body color. The door cards were literally cardboard spray-painted with the thinnest of a plastic film. No radio. Drum brakes all around. (And if you were foolish enough not to immediately buy two sets of replacement front brake shoes, you were well and totally f##ked.)

But where I'm going with this is I've owned at least 15 new Volkswagens, the majority of which were water-cooled. I even raced one for a while in a series VW cooked up with Bilstein in the 1980s. If you want to know how many laps of Lime Rock Park you can do in a 1980 VW Rabbit prepped for the the Bilstein Cup before the grease will be "cooked" out of the front wheel bearings and you'll go sailing off the track at Turn 1, I'm you're man. One. Some genius showed up with synthetic wheel-bearing grease and stole the show.

And guessing now, I'd say that at least half of the water-cooled V-Dubs I've owned have required at least one replacement water pump within 30k miles. Often two within 50k miles. And it's one thing when you can raise the hood and see the damn things to replace one. When you can't -- and you can't on any of the newer Golfs -- it's real work to replace one; hours of genuine work.

And of course VW AG and VoA know this. They've known it for 47 years. They could have demanded their suppliers provide better quality pumps, but the pumps would have been more expensive. And when you're selling 500,000 of anything, another buck or two for a quality water pump that will last 100,000 miles turns into serious money. So, for decades VW AG and VoA have been content shoving the replacement costs onto their customers whenever possible.

Thus, while ordinarily I am loath to commend, much less endorse, class action lawsuits (which always reward the lawyers and seldom result in anything more meaningful than pennies on the dollar for vehicle owners, if that), in this case I'll make an exception. Whatever it costs VW AG and VOA, I'm delighted. Thrilled even. What the manufacturer has done for decades is bloody unconscionable. IMHO, in addition to whatever it costs VW in dollars and cents, the penalty should include conspicuous tatooing of the bodies of those responsible and their public humiliation.

Let me footnote this rant by noting that I've also owned dozen of new Hondas/Acuras of all sorts. Not once have any of them required a replacement water pump. It all comes down to meaningful quality control and insisting that your suppliers come up with the goods.

 

[Jumpy]

How can I tell if my coolant is leaking? I sometimes have clear liquid under my car, but I was under the impression that it was just water from the AC.

 

[jimlloyd40]

How can I tell if my coolant is leaking? I sometimes have clear liquid under my car, but I was under the impression that it was just water from the AC.

Just keep an eye on the overflow tank.

 

[Gray_Panther]

I'm coming in late on this one for which I apologize. I just feel compelled to contribute my 2-cents. (Pls excuse the inevitable typos.)

I have a long history with both air- and water-cooled V-Dubs. Two of my undergraduate years in the 1960s were subsidized (in a sense) by my VW employer. Years later, I owned one of the first 300 V-Dub Rabbits imported. It was a classic "loss leader" ($2999.00) for both the manufacturer and the dealer in question. I could go on for a pages describing all the things it did not have -- like carpeting; there was none in the back. The floor and the tar-flooring were simply spray painted body color. The door cards were literally cardboard spray-painted with the thinnest of a plastic film. No radio. Drum brakes all around. (And if you were foolish enough not to immediately buy two sets of replacement front brake shoes, you were well and totally f##ked.)

But where I'm going with this is I've owned at least 15 new Volkswagens, the majority of which were water-cooled. I even raced one for a while in a series VW cooked up with Bilstein in the 1980s. If you want to know how many laps of Lime Rock Park you can do in a 1980 VW Rabbit prepped for the the Bilstein Cup before the grease will be "cooked" out of the front wheel bearings and you'll go sailing off the track at Turn 1, I'm you're man. One. Some genius showed up with synthetic wheel-bearing grease and stole the show.

And guessing now, I'd say that at least half of the water-cooled V-Dubs I've owned have required at least one replacement water pump within 30k miles. Often two within 50k miles. And it's one thing when you can raise the hood and see the damn things to replace one. When you can't -- and you can't on any of the newer Golfs -- it's real work to replace one; hours of genuine work.

And of course VW AG and VoA know this. They've known it for 47 years. They could have demanded their suppliers provide better quality pumps, but the pumps would have been more expensive. And when you're selling 500,000 of anything, another buck or two for a quality water pump that will last 100,000 miles turns into serious money. So, for decades VW AG and VoA have been content shoving the replacement costs onto their customers whenever possible.

Thus, while ordinarily I am loath to commend, much less endorse, class action lawsuits (which always reward the lawyers and seldom result in anything more meaningful than pennies on the dollar for vehicle owners, if that), in this case I'll make an exception. Whatever it costs VW AG and VOA, I'm delighted. Thrilled even. What the manufacturer has done for decades is bloody unconscionable. IMHO, in addition to whatever it costs VW in dollars and cents, the penalty should include conspicuous tatooing of the bodies of those responsible and their public humiliation.

Let me footnote this rant by noting that I've also owned dozen of new Hondas/Acuras of all sorts. Not once have any of them required a replacement water pump. It all comes down to meaningful quality control and insisting that your suppliers come up with the goods.

I want to have a beer with you. This post says it all!

 

[Keehs360]

I'm coming in late on this one for which I apologize. I just feel compelled to contribute my 2-cents. (Pls excuse the inevitable typos.)

I have a long history with both air- and water-cooled V-Dubs. Two of my undergraduate years in the 1960s were subsidized (in a sense) by my VW employer. Years later, I owned one of the first 300 V-Dub Rabbits imported. It was a classic "loss leader" ($2999.00) for both the manufacturer and the dealer in question. I could go on for a pages describing all the things it did not have -- like carpeting; there was none in the back. The floor and the tar-flooring were simply spray painted body color. The door cards were literally cardboard spray-painted with the thinnest of a plastic film. No radio. Drum brakes all around. (And if you were foolish enough not to immediately buy two sets of replacement front brake shoes, you were well and totally f##ked.)

But where I'm going with this is I've owned at least 15 new Volkswagens, the majority of which were water-cooled. I even raced one for a while in a series VW cooked up with Bilstein in the 1980s. If you want to know how many laps of Lime Rock Park you can do in a 1980 VW Rabbit prepped for the the Bilstein Cup before the grease will be "cooked" out of the front wheel bearings and you'll go sailing off the track at Turn 1, I'm you're man. One. Some genius showed up with synthetic wheel-bearing grease and stole the show.

And guessing now, I'd say that at least half of the water-cooled V-Dubs I've owned have required at least one replacement water pump within 30k miles. Often two within 50k miles. And it's one thing when you can raise the hood and see the damn things to replace one. When you can't -- and you can't on any of the newer Golfs -- it's real work to replace one; hours of genuine work.

And of course VW AG and VoA know this. They've known it for 47 years. They could have demanded their suppliers provide better quality pumps, but the pumps would have been more expensive. And when you're selling 500,000 of anything, another buck or two for a quality water pump that will last 100,000 miles turns into serious money. So, for decades VW AG and VoA have been content shoving the replacement costs onto their customers whenever possible.

Thus, while ordinarily I am loath to commend, much less endorse, class action lawsuits (which always reward the lawyers and seldom result in anything more meaningful than pennies on the dollar for vehicle owners, if that), in this case I'll make an exception. Whatever it costs VW AG and VOA, I'm delighted. Thrilled even. What the manufacturer has done for decades is bloody unconscionable. IMHO, in addition to whatever it costs VW in dollars and cents, the penalty should include conspicuous tatooing of the bodies of those responsible and their public humiliation.

Let me footnote this rant by noting that I've also owned dozen of new Hondas/Acuras of all sorts. Not once have any of them required a replacement water pump. It all comes down to meaningful quality control and insisting that your suppliers come up with the goods.

totally with you on this one. Frankly, if vw doesn’t begin sorting these shitty third party parts, this GTI will be the last vw Audi product I’ll ever buy.

and I’m sure vw and Audi will be fine without my repeat purchase. I’m just not willing to buy from an entity that won’t put as much effort into better third party parts as they did cheating emissions. Where the fuck did that energy go?

 

[HelloNewman]

If you have dealer based complaints inside of the warranty period, I would use that as leverage. If the dealer doesn’t want to help you, which they have the power to without manufacturer authorization, then I would contact VWoA and let them know the situation. Be firm, but not an asshole will take you far. Stick to the facts and present your case. I have used internet information, ie threads in forums, to prove my case in situations like these. It may be anecdotal, but hardly easy to deny.

I'm going to give it a try, we'll see what happens.

 

[Chogokin]

I got 2 free cases of Redbull in the settlement for the guy that sued Redbull for false advertising with the slogan "Redbull gives you wings" when it did not in face give you wings. As far as the water pump recall is concerned has anyone had any success claiming this outside of warranty? I reported coolant leaks inside of the warranty period and they told me nothing was wrong. Now I'm outside of it and I have to top off the coolant every three months or so.

I have something similar to you. I'll randomly smell coolant...but can never really find a leak. The coolant level will drop too. Mine is a 2017 and have just under 21k on the odo. My warranty expires next year. If I still can't find a leak...I'm going to take the car to the dealer and see if they can find it.

Maybe if VW gets enough heat...they'll extend the water pump warranty to 10 years or 100k miles.

 

[HelloNewman]

I have something similar to you. I'll randomly smell coolant...but can never really find a leak. The coolant level will drop too. Mine is a 2017 and have just under 21k on the odo. My warranty expires next year. If I still can't find a leak...I'm going to take the car to the dealer and see if they can find it.

Yeah, that's the odd thing it seems to be very sporadic. Sometimes it stays full for months on end sometimes the loss seems more rapid. Overall it has never gone below the minimum level (which is also confusing) if it is a leak would it not leak until the point of being completely empty? I've never gotten a coolant light, or reached below slightly past minimum fill level.