Need some validation?

[Roald]

As some of you know I'm working my way to ST from GS.
Overall I have a DD that I would like to AutoX. I have zero aspiration of winning. I just like to tinker, and I am performing well. The last few events I was solidly in the top 15 of 100~/90~ people.

The next step is to move into ST with either suspension, or tune. I think. I will not go beyond ST for the foreseeable future. The car has 75k on it so the suspension is on deck regardless of what kit I go with.
The issue is as it typically is...money.
I'm looking at saving towards a Redshift kit and after emailing them I think I'll land with the Comp kit and 8/10 springs.
The real issue is I'm likely to only get one accomplished before the season starts. I get a bonus in the spring that will likely let me invest more of course. But before spring I have to focus on one or the other.
I haven't done F/RSB yet either. My only mod is 200tw tires, and seat time.

So considering Christmas sales are coming up. And it appears EQT already has a tune sale going in fact....


What would you do next?
I'm also open to other out of the box suggestions.

 

[krs]

There’s those much wiser then me that can offer good advice.

In 2021 I had a stage 2 tune on my car, with all the accompanied supporting hardware. Suspension was stock DCC, with soft EMD brand lowering springs. I did okay locally, in a very small club, but was worked in big clubs and regional events.

For 2022 I focused on suspension, coilovers (limited as I wanted to keep DCC), FSB and RSB, front LCA bushings, rear trailing arm bushings, and Eurosport camber pucks.

For me this suspension improvement drastically accelerated my cars capabilities, allowing me to be a contender in three very large clubs, including regional events.

So with that, I’m sure the tune complements my suspension work, but the best value for me was the suspension work. If I were to do it again, I’d start there first, then go to the tune after.

But having the extra power sure helps as well.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

You can do well with just front camber adder, alignment (max front camber, mess with rear toe), and good 200tw tire.

 

[SouthFL_Mk7.5]

Yes. Camber up front. Rear swaybar.

 

[Roald]

Sorry to keep two threads going about similar things. I probably should have asked these questions in the other thread.

Originally I didn't realize that camber plates will add NVH. I would like to avoid adding much body noise. I can get away with a more harsh ride, but noise is going to be an issue. I had solid motor mounts in my old Mazda 3 and it was nuts. I do not want to go back to that.
Would I be better off going with their basic kit and finding alternative less aggressive camber ( just stock?) options? Per usual 5 more minutes of searching and I sort of found my answer. - Yes just get the basic kit and look towards whatever a ground control kit is, or the SuperPro Camber mounts. For whatever reason folks are reporting little added NVH with these.
It appears the factory max spec might be around -1.25 and it looks like "a lot" of folks are recommending Starting at -2. I also don't want to add so much camber that my DD/All season tires are seeing significantly more wear either. If there's something that doesn't add much NVH and I can adjust easily for AutoX and then for Street I could work with that. Looks like aiming towards -2 , -2.5 might be a solid end goal. And If I set ride height for Autox more aggressively and align in that state, when I adjust ride height for street I could dial down the camber wear on tires as a result of increased ride height.


And then longevity. Will I need to have any of these kits rebuilt more frequently than a sealed system?

I recognize that a lot of folks call the GTI a GS sweetheart of sorts. And that's fine. Again I have a DD, that I want to AutoX and modify, within ST, and be a reasonable Street ride. I'm not here to win, just have more fun For the first time I have the funds, space, and capability to do fun things with my car and I want to do that.

 

[hans611]

The reason camber plates add NVH is because they don't have the rubber bushings an OEM strut mount would have... Normally in a purely race car, thats a benefit... less movement in suspension components = more predictable and better feedback, and steering feel....

However, there is an option to run the OEM strut mount in this car with an adapter that offsets the shock to one side, effectively adding around ~0.8 deg of camber up front, maybe this is what you need... a lot of people have used it here, there is some feedback, both positive and negative... You get a bit more camber, while retaining the OEM dampening on the strut mount.

"EURO SPORT STREET CAMBER KIT" https://www.eurosportacc.com/products/18700k

 

[Roald]

The reason camber plates add NVH is because they don't have the rubber bushings an OEM strut mount would have... Normally in a purely race car, thats a benefit... less movement in suspension components = more predictable and better feedback, and steering feel....

However, there is an option to run the OEM strut mount in this car with an adapter that offsets the shock to one side, effectively adding around ~0.8 deg of camber up front, maybe this is what you need... a lot of people have used it here, there is some feedback, both positive and negative... You get a bit more camber, while retaining the OEM dampening on the strut mount.

"EURO SPORT STREET CAMBER KIT" https://www.eurosportacc.com/products/18700k

Looks like that would get me close to the -2 camber point which would be good. I'm into this as an option.
Thanks!

 

[SouthFL_Mk7.5]

I’ve had both the Superpro camber mounts and the EuroSport.

The Superpro were great for a few months then NVH got unbearable for DD.

I’ve had the EuroSport on for about six months and they’re perfect. Spent the extra money and purchased the pucks already installed in the tophats. Would recommend.

 

[Roald]

One thing I can't quite seem to figure out is ride height. I know they're going to build the kit to my spec but... I looked over the Suspension Geometry thread again and it looks like the sweet spot might be... Stock height down to about 1.5"? If I'm going to land around -2 on camber.

 

[krs]

The reason camber plates add NVH is because they don't have the rubber bushings an OEM strut mount would have... Normally in a purely race car, thats a benefit... less movement in suspension components = more predictable and better feedback, and steering feel....

However, there is an option to run the OEM strut mount in this car with an adapter that offsets the shock to one side, effectively adding around ~0.8 deg of camber up front, maybe this is what you need... a lot of people have used it here, there is some feedback, both positive and negative... You get a bit more camber, while retaining the OEM dampening on the strut mount.

"EURO SPORT STREET CAMBER KIT" https://www.eurosportacc.com/products/18700k

Another fan of these, as that’s what I run to minimize the NVH.

You could also add offset control arm bushings for another potential -0.5.

There was another thread in the suspension forum discussing the ST rules, and most all concurred the offset bushing and pucks still meet the intent of the ST rules.

I have those two mods, and coils that aren’t slammed, and sit right at -2.8° on my front.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

The offset lower bushingt added a supprising amount of vibration. But you get used to it. Not as bad as the dogbone inserts though.

 

[mrmatto]

I think you’ll get more daily thrill from the tune, but more competitive improvement from the suspension work.

I run STH with a stage 1 tune and mostly stock suspension (other than a rsb), and the extra power isn't that advantageous yet on anything but really fast courses. I need suspension and camber to be able to get through a corner faster and more precisely so I can put that power down on the exit sooner.

Honestly, an alignment and the bigger RSB improved the control-ability a lot. RSB + tune could be an intermediate step to consider if you want improvements in both power and control.

 

[Roald]

I think you’ll get more daily thrill from the tune, but more competitive improvement from the suspension work.

I run STH with a stage 1 tune and mostly stock suspension (other than a rsb), and the extra power isn't that advantageous yet on anything but really fast courses. I need suspension and camber to be able to get through a corner faster and more precisely so I can put that power down on the exit sooner.

Honestly, an alignment and the bigger RSB improved the control-ability a lot. RSB + tune could be an intermediate step to consider if you want improvements in both power and control.

The turn around time on the coil over build is what has me potentially pushing it to the front of the line. A possible 4 week+ turn around puts me into January. And winters are busy for me. So I’ll be crunching to get it installed before the first events of the year int the spring.

And I tend to agree. More power is useless if I can’t put it down well. Anyone who has played GT or Forza can tell you that.

Yes the discount on the tune would be awesome. But maybe they’ll do another sale around tax time? Regardless I think the suspension is likely the “most right” first step. I’m planning to order it this week. Just have to decide on ride height I guess.

 

[Roald]

I’ve been talking with the guys at redshift about getting this started and I mentioned going without the camber plate and just using the stock mount. This is what they said-


“One thing I wanted to mention is that our rubber bushing non-camber adjustable top front plates are still coaxial like the camber plates are... meaning the spring and shock forces are sitting on the bushing. In the stock front strut, the spring forces go directly into the chassis of the car and only the shock sits in the stock rubber bushing. We have not had anyone run high spring rates (like 8k front) on our rubber bushing front top mount; so it's possible that will be a mismatch. The rubber bushing may cause some bounce in the front of the car”

To some extent I do and don’t understand.
It means that the front top mounts, the 3 bolts wouldn’t actually be holding the force/weight of the car anymore and instead the rubber bushing would right?

If that’s the case there’s no way that will work long term right? I would think that thing would get destroyed. Meaning then I would Have to use their camber plates, which in turn I suspect are going to add significant nvh?

I guess one benefit of even the straight bushing option is that their mount is slotted to potentially allow up to -3 camber.

I should add that I suspect the folks from redshift might browse these forums. And I’m sorry I’m just trying to not be a dumb dumb without wasting your resources figuring this out.

 

[Brian_]

For the stock mounts the 3 little bolts aren't holding the weight of the car/spring force, they just locate the mount within the strut tower and keep it from moving laterally or dropping under droop. All the surface area where strut tower sheet metal meets the top of the outer strut mount is where the weight/spring force is.

Would be pretty reasonable to assume that would wear out the rubber bushing much faster and could lead to knocking and NVH from the stock mounts. Cutaway of the stock mount below shows the difference in the rubber sections meant to support the strut and the section meant to support the spring.