OOF that is a lot. But then again, their FB page looks very impressive and I don't know of many other options for a flex fuel gti. I don't like the way UM has their site set up, and more importantly they don't have a dealer in my state.
7
Looking for the best (turbocharger) upgrade path for tight, twisty roads.
- Thread starter Image4
- Start date
OOF that is a lot. But then again, their FB page looks very impressive and I don't know of many other options for a flex fuel gti. I don't like the way UM has their site set up, and more importantly they don't have a dealer in my state.
I would strongly urge you to avoid UM, especially if you do not have a local dealer. Their expertise aside, the experience is miserable if you are not close to a preferred dealer (the difference between a dozen revisions and being done within the week or waiting 3-4 weeks for a half-assed tune that throws a CEL on the first pull). If Jeff is working on your car, it'll probably be good. If you get stuck with Fred, good fucking luck.
They offer two things, drag records and an ancient flex-fuel patch. They only scale timing and boost off ethanol, the more modern patches can also scale lambda, IAT targets, and MPI/DI split.
The shop I use is a UM dealer, and even for them it can take a few weeks to hear a response back from UM themselves.
JerseyDrew77
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Virginia & NC
- Car(s)
- 2016 TR GTI S 6MT
UM can no longer claim to have the fastest MK7/7.5's as those records belongs to Galano. They just had an R go into the 8's in the 1/4 mile and I believe that makes the first time for an R.
Haha yeah, it seemed to me like UM was sketchy. I definitely don't see UM as an option, and it sounds like I'm not missing out.
EpicTech said he had some issues responding to the thread, but exchanged some PM's with me where I asked him a bunch of specific questions about turbos lol
Originally I was planning on trying to buy and have everything installed at once and go from zero to hero, but now I'm thinking otherwise. I want to take advantage of e85 in my area and work up to the most ideal build for me.
So this is what I'm currently hoping to start doing next year:
fsb & rsb + lightweight wheels + good tires ($3k-3.2k)
IE Stage 1 w/ Flex using Autotech HPFP + BFI Clutch & SMF upgrade (~$2.7k)
Better brake pads+stainless steel lines + 034 dogbone mount+insert ($1k)
If I want more later on after that:
Intercooler + Intake + DP w/ EPA compliant cat + IE Stage 2 w/ Flex (~$3.5k)
And if I want to go full send one day:
Turbo Swap + Galano Tune (~$3.5k, assuming the hpfp will be good enough for fueling)
If I were to swap turbos, I'm thinking of going with either Littco L380x, or the Mamba 3071
Not accounting for labor, which I imagine will be quite significant.
EpicTech said he had some issues responding to the thread, but exchanged some PM's with me where I asked him a bunch of specific questions about turbos lol
Originally I was planning on trying to buy and have everything installed at once and go from zero to hero, but now I'm thinking otherwise. I want to take advantage of e85 in my area and work up to the most ideal build for me.
So this is what I'm currently hoping to start doing next year:
fsb & rsb + lightweight wheels + good tires ($3k-3.2k)
IE Stage 1 w/ Flex using Autotech HPFP + BFI Clutch & SMF upgrade (~$2.7k)
Better brake pads+stainless steel lines + 034 dogbone mount+insert ($1k)
If I want more later on after that:
Intercooler + Intake + DP w/ EPA compliant cat + IE Stage 2 w/ Flex (~$3.5k)
And if I want to go full send one day:
Turbo Swap + Galano Tune (~$3.5k, assuming the hpfp will be good enough for fueling)
If I were to swap turbos, I'm thinking of going with either Littco L380x, or the Mamba 3071
Not accounting for labor, which I imagine will be quite significant.
victorofhavoc
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Kansas City
I'd argue the intercooler should come before any tune, and it's a pita to do...
Even stock this platform benefits from an intercooler when driven hard.
Originally that's what I was planning and I definitely still agree with you, but IE says on their site that an IC is "optional" rather than "recommended/highly recommended/required" for stage 1, so I was hoping I could manage without it for a while. Even if I never go stage 2 I will definitely get one eventually.
Maybe I would be better off ignoring IE's take on it tho? lol
IE would rather make some money off of you now than wait to buy the actual hardware you should be using.
GTI Jake
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Late to the game here, but I’ll throw my $0.02 in.
-Intercooler upgrade: (of course I’d like to sell you my FMIC), but Do88 leads the direct replacements if you go that route.
-BFI Dog Bone insert
-Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires for all around’er, and a separate set of summer tires (or 200TW if you’ll be tracking). I didn’t catch your climate.
-H&R RSB with Moog endlinks
-Stage 1 tune: APR (set it and forget it, with the option for is38 in the future) or EQT via Cobb AP (for basically limitless options).
-Clutch upgrade: ACT has been good in my car, some will say go SouthBend Stage 3.
Both are available from FCP with a lifetime warranty.
If you do all that and still want more there’s nothing wasted, or that would need swapped out to take the next step and upgrade your turbo. Having owned a is38 GTI and a Mk7 GLI at the same time gives me a little insight into how the extra weight, DCC, and longer wheelbase come into play. I’d completely hold off on going beyond stage 1 or really diving deep down the rabbit hole right off the bat…if you do the above list it’ll completely transform the car, to the point I’d wager you’d be happy leaving it there at least for several years.
-Intercooler upgrade: (of course I’d like to sell you my FMIC), but Do88 leads the direct replacements if you go that route.
-BFI Dog Bone insert
-Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires for all around’er, and a separate set of summer tires (or 200TW if you’ll be tracking). I didn’t catch your climate.
-H&R RSB with Moog endlinks
-Stage 1 tune: APR (set it and forget it, with the option for is38 in the future) or EQT via Cobb AP (for basically limitless options).
-Clutch upgrade: ACT has been good in my car, some will say go SouthBend Stage 3.
Both are available from FCP with a lifetime warranty.
If you do all that and still want more there’s nothing wasted, or that would need swapped out to take the next step and upgrade your turbo. Having owned a is38 GTI and a Mk7 GLI at the same time gives me a little insight into how the extra weight, DCC, and longer wheelbase come into play. I’d completely hold off on going beyond stage 1 or really diving deep down the rabbit hole right off the bat…if you do the above list it’ll completely transform the car, to the point I’d wager you’d be happy leaving it there at least for several years.
Huh. Very real point I never considered
Hi @GTI Jake ! I’m happy you decided to chime in, I’ve watched a lot of your youtube videos, but I’m not on facebook so I miss out on anything you post there.
I’ve read mentions of Do88 several times but haven’t researched, I will do that. Also your FMIC was the first option I considered, but heard that stock location IC upgrades were easier to install so I was hoping that would make labor cheaper, also I was somewhat inclined to choose a “go here, click buy, wait for shipping” option. I may reconsider though, I have seen good reviews and pictures of your products!
I’ve seen BFI’s GLI build and so I trust them as a company. I’ll trust your choice with them for the dogbone insert. What’s your opinion on a “dogbone mount” upgrade, such as the one from 034?
I live in a climate where it gets HOT in summer, and while it does get pretty cold in winter we rarely get any serious snow and if we do it’s melted within a week. Not sure what route I should go for tires, I’d like to get just summers but I’m wondering if that would be bad for when it rains or just gets cold in general. Any thought?
Also, I appreciate the advice for RSB + endlinks. I was already looking at FSB+RSB from H&R but haven’t heard of upgrading endlinks I will look into that. Btw do you know of any complications involving installing an FSB with the PP/VAQ “differential” in the front?
For clutches I’ve heard good things on both ACT and SB, although I’m inclined to go BFI for the cheaper price + Single Mass Flywheel upgrade being included. Do you think I should avoid that choice?
And for tuning, do you have any reason to advise against an IE OTS tune? I was originally planning to go with an OTS APR tune of some sort, either DTR6054, IS38 APR or APR Stage 1, but now I’m thinking of the IE route for reasons I mentioned before:
There’s not much to gather on them, which usually would be immediate no-go for me, but I really like what they offer.
I retain the option of staying stage 1 and stopping before the rabbit hole plummets, I get to use E85 immediately with the uncommon “flexfuel” capabilities, and it makes very impressive power numbers using the stock turbo. To use Stage 1 “TrueFlex” you need a HPFP (330whp), and to go Stage 2 after that you need $100 and a DP (350whp). This way, if I want to stay at stage 1 I get more power than with APR, and if I want to go deep then I will already have fueling and DP for the custom tune+turbo.
Again, I appreciate your response. It’s great food for thought. Any and all advice or opinion is very valuable to me.
Also just a side note, if I end up buying your FMIC, then I’m also buying my downpipe from you lol
GTI Jake
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Huh. Very real point I never considered
Hi @GTI Jake ! I’m happy you decided to chime in, I’ve watched a lot of your youtube videos, but I’m not on facebook so I miss out on anything you post there.
I’ve read mentions of Do88 several times but haven’t researched, I will do that. Also your FMIC was the first option I considered, but heard that stock location IC upgrades were easier to install so I was hoping that would make labor cheaper, also I was somewhat inclined to choose a “go here, click buy, wait for shipping” option. I may reconsider though, I have seen good reviews and pictures of your products!
I’ve seen BFI’s GLI build and so I trust them as a company. I’ll trust your choice with them for the dogbone insert. What’s your opinion on a “dogbone mount” upgrade, such as the one from 034?
I live in a climate where it gets HOT in summer, and while it does get pretty cold in winter we rarely get any serious snow and if we do it’s melted within a week. Not sure what route I should go for tires, I’d like to get just summers but I’m wondering if that would be bad for when it rains or just gets cold in general. Any thought?
Also, I appreciate the advice for RSB + endlinks. I was already looking at FSB+RSB from H&R but haven’t heard of upgrading endlinks I will look into that. Btw do you know of any complications involving installing an FSB with the PP/VAQ “differential” in the front?
For clutches I’ve heard good things on both ACT and SB, although I’m inclined to go BFI for the cheaper price + Single Mass Flywheel upgrade being included. Do you think I should avoid that choice?
And for tuning, do you have any reason to advise against an IE OTS tune? I was originally planning to go with an OTS APR tune of some sort, either DTR6054, IS38 APR or APR Stage 1, but now I’m thinking of the IE route for reasons I mentioned before:
There’s not much to gather on them, which usually would be immediate no-go for me, but I really like what they offer.
I retain the option of staying stage 1 and stopping before the rabbit hole plummets, I get to use E85 immediately with the uncommon “flexfuel” capabilities, and it makes very impressive power numbers using the stock turbo. To use Stage 1 “TrueFlex” you need a HPFP (330whp), and to go Stage 2 after that you need $100 and a DP (350whp). This way, if I want to stay at stage 1 I get more power than with APR, and if I want to go deep then I will already have fueling and DP for the custom tune+turbo.
Again, I appreciate your response. It’s great food for thought. Any and all advice or opinion is very valuable to me.
Typically my FMIC (1.5~3 hours) takes half the time to install vs a direct replacement (3~6 hours), so it would be a labor savings there.
The wide range being based on skill set, I’ve had teenagers & guys in their 60s DIY install my FMIC (sometimes with some tech support from me, but everyone’s been able to knock it out)!
As for mounts, BFI is now & has always been the best in the industry. My personal car has their engine & transmission mounts as well as the dog bone insert.
There’s no need to replace anything else dog bone wise, and doing so actually isn’t recommended since the “bone” portion is an engineered weak point to protect the magnesium transmission cases. I’ve seen broken dog bones & broken cases…I’d personally prefer the former.
Tire wise, you definitely want to run whatever you choose in its intended temperature range. If you can only have one street tire I’d suggest Michelin PSAS4 over a summer tire (which won’t do well at all below 50*F). Being in the Charlotte, NC I have run summer tires year around, and looking back now that was foolish given how dangerous they are in cooler temperatures & how well the current offering of all seasons do in all conditions.
Sway bar wise the front subframe needs dropped for installation, so doing that at the same time as the clutch install will save a ton of money both on labor and wheel alignment. The factory endlinks are plastic, so the Moog units are good cheap insurance.
While I rave about BFI’s mounts, they’ve had a rocky history with clutches. They sell a house brand that’s white labeled aka produced by Clutch Masters, which had tons of issues early on and was actually discontinued for quite some time. This is actually the first I’ve heard anyone bring up their clutch kits in years. DKM is actually worse, but either way I’d steer clear of anything questionable especially on such a labor intensive job. To clarify basically all aftermarket clutches include a SMF, only the OEM based “TTRS” style retrofits retain the DMF.
Without deep diving on IE I’ll just say that they as a company aren’t up to my standards as far as ethics go. Several products & even an entire race engine department went unsupported…left a lot of people high and dry, some to the tune of several thousand dollars.
Sounds good!
I also do in house installations if you’re up for a drive. I’ve had customers in eleven states & counting.
+1 on IE. I have seen awful logs from production-released tunes, while they did take care of the people whose motors they blew with antilag they still released a tune that grenaded several blocks very quickly, and their engine program was garbage. The quality of the parts I've owned from them was on par with the usual marked up chinese junk.
Ask people who bought their Mk7 catch cans or camber plates how they handled that..