How to drive faster!

[victorofhavoc]

When VW decided to go for the fwd record at Nürburgring they selected a GTI Clubsport S with a manual transmission.

And yet the TCR racecar comes with a stock DSG + LSD option as the base entry, albeit with software changes...

 

[jay745]

Tight, technical hairpins exist, and the DSG allows the extra downshift in the braking zone where a manual would just be a touch slower and upset your balance into the turn in. You absolutely NEVER want to shift a manual car right before the turn in, while on a DSG it happens so quickly you can afford that time.

Not sure what you're going on about, but I never mentioned anything about mid corner shifting . You're also assuming I'm making shifting mistakes... I've been doing this a while, I know where to shift .

Sure tight hairpins exist, but they are rare. Of the tracks I've driven on (Grattan, gingerman, autobahn, road america, Blackhawk farms, Putnam park) every track within 200 miles from me, there's only one hairpin that requires going into 2nd at road america. Maybe your example would be better suited in an autocross scenario.

And yeah not going on about anything, just trying to stop the spread of misinformation.


Back on track now, this thread is about a manual driver trying to improve strategy. Dsg fanboys and people that don't drive manual can go start another thread about dsg strategy.

 

[goodvibes]

Who cares? Off ramps don't.

 

[CFB_GTA]

And yeah not going on about anything, just trying to stop the spread of misinformation.

As are others. Try doing datalogging of a dsg vs a manual. My guess is you'd be surprised how much time is lost shifting or not maximizing braking whilst heel toeing. Manual always wins the fun and marketing battle tho.

On topic, I remember the first time I bought a car was the first time I drove a manual. I was proud of only 3 stalls getting home.

 

[sterkrazzy]

I paid more attention to how I was driving this morning to see if I was pausing as I let off the clutch, but I only really did that a little bit going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd for the first time after a cold start. All the shifts after that I was releasing the clutch in 1 steady movement.

 

[Inka Orange]

Rev hang in my car is way less now since the 24FD update. The little bit that remains? Power shift! Kinda.

 

[SD11]

Comparing production cars to f1 is a silly comparison. Laughable to even put a vw on the same chart... Do better.

Your post is beyond moronic, automated gearboxes are defacto champs in EVERY meaningful road racing series everywhere....

By your logic, manufacturers would be systematically evolving the manual trans, that is not happening and manuals are all but dead, even Corvette has adopted the DCT.

You may have track time, but claiming a manual has an advantage over a DCT, DSG or otherwise is a crock of shit....

 

[jay745]

Your post is beyond moronic, automated gearboxes are defacto champs in EVERY meaningful road racing series everywhere....

By your logic, manufacturers would be systematically evolving the manual trans, that is not happening and manuals are all but dead, even Corvette has adopted the DCT.

You may have track time, but claiming a manual has an advantage over a DCT, DSG or otherwise is a crock of shit....

Youre lucky it's a nice day in Chicago and I'm in a great mood, generally personal attacks and insults like that would get you banned here. You can disagree with what someone is saying without insulting them and name calling like a child.

 

[dtran11]

Make sure you move your foot completely off the clutch after the gear is engage.

are you able to do the following?
1) Get the car rolling moving slowly
2) Remove your foot from the clutch pedal, move it perhaps to the rest area
3) Floor it
4) at around 5500k rpm as fast as you can press the clutch down, put into 2nd and release the clutch and floor it

very very important when you are cruising you should move your left foot to the rest area and never keep your foot hovering over the clutch pedal as you may press it unintentionally causing premature wear

practice that and it will start to come to you naturally

Regarding step 4, if you don't wait for the rev to fall down for 2nd gear (assuming rev hang) then by definition you will slip the clutch when going into second right? I guess that's why you floor the gas so it just feels smooth.

I'm not really trying to drag race. Just drive a bit faster while not wearing the clutch abnormally.

If I see the granny in the Elantra again then I'll use your technique. Thanks

 

[jimlloyd40]

Tight, technical hairpins exist, and the DSG allows the extra downshift in the braking zone where a manual would just be a touch slower and upset your balance into the turn in. You absolutely NEVER want to shift a manual car right before the turn in, while on a DSG it happens so quickly you can afford that time.

Not sure what you're going on about, but I never mentioned anything about mid corner shifting . You're also assuming I'm making shifting mistakes... I've been doing this a while, I know where to shift .

If you don't downshift a manual right before the turn in when do you?

 

[SD11]

Youre lucky it's a nice day in Chicago and I'm in a great mood, generally personal attacks and insults like that would get you banned here. You can disagree with what someone is saying without insulting them and name calling like a child.

My apologies..... I was not intending to insult you per se, rather pointedly refute the idea that a manual transmission was or is or will ever be a superior technology on a race track.

Let me say it in a different way in hopes of not offending you.

I completely disagree with your position sir, as do the following manufacturers.

Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McClaren, Bugatti, AMG-Mercedes, Corvette, Audi, BMW, etc......

As a counterpoint, in support of your position, I do believe NASCAR is still utilizing Manual transmissions, but to be honest with you, I do not follow or know much about that particular racing series..... and I may be mistaken.

I would also be interested in the opinions of respected racing professionals who we may both know, and can refer to for their expertise on this particular subject. If you are aware of persons who would qualify and speak in support of your position, I would enjoy hearing their perspective.

 

[jimlloyd40]

My apologies..... I was not intending to insult you per se, rather pointedly refute the idea that a manual transmission was or is or will ever be a superior technology on a race track.

Let me say it in a different way in hopes of not offending you.

I completely disagree with your position sir, as do the following manufacturers.

Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McClaren, Bugatti, AMG-Mercedes, Corvette, Audi, BMW, etc......

As a counterpoint, in support of your position, I do believe NASCAR is still utilizing Manual transmissions, but to be honest with you, I do not follow or know much about that particular racing series..... and I may be mistaken.

I would also be interested in the opinions of respected racing professionals who we may both know, and can refer to for their expertise on this particular subject. If you are aware of persons who would qualify and speak in support of your position, I would enjoy hearing their perspective.

You're correct about Nascar.

 

[victorofhavoc]

If you don't downshift a manual right before the turn in when do you?

The rest of the braking zone. The momentary pause right before you turn in is still a moment of settling and pressing the tires into the ground through weight transition. It's at this point that you're really modulating the brake as you're turning in, and it's not a great time to upset that with a driveline shock. As you turn towards the apex, you should be reducing the brake pressure gradually, and no shifting of any sort should be happening in that area either.

 

[goodvibes]

That's a really picky definition of when the turning and braking zones start as they can be the same area depending on a few factors like radius and available speed entering. Assuming he meant something other than the obvious and dissecting like that is a bit obtuse. I'm pretty sure jim implied that you hit the brakes and shift on the way in. Everyone wants to be in gear approaching the apex to get the power down as controlled as possible and even be able use 2 pedals at the same time to rotate a FWD car and keep speed. Everyone shifts in the braking zone. Some turns you brake sooner and some later depending on the turn and what's best to not break traction.

NASCAR still uses sticks but other than leaving and entering the pits, they don't shift so not an argument for rowing.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Nascar does shift on the short tracks and of course the road races which would be the closest to the discussion about shifting in turns.