engine knock

[plastermaster]

Just wanted to get some thoughts and others experience if any.
2018 standard Golf TSI.
When I am driving up a hills in areas at low speeds like 15-20 MPH, (due to speed limit in the area) my automatic transmission is lazy about downshifting, and I will get some engine knock. I use my paddle shifters to drop down a gear otherwise the engine will be running < 1500 rpm. I had the shop check it out last time I had it in for some work but they couldn't get it to do as I am describing. 2018 standard Golf TSI. It will also do this around 25 mph when the auto wants to be in 3rd up a hill. This isn't one off behavior for my car it is very consistent. It is possible that I am mistaking knock for some other vibration, but I'm pretty sure it is knocking based on my experience with aircooled VWs running too high compression and bad gas.

I am interested in getting an APR ECU tune, but concerned that adding boost will exacerbate the problem if I have an issue with the auto transmission not wanting to downshift properly. From what I know the APR tune only changes boost.

Look forward to your thoughts!

 

[YamR1rider]

Is it throwing the EPC light or other codes to say it's knocking? Otherwise I'd suggest what you are feeling is the engine just lugging a bit if on light throttle at a gear change threshold.

Have the 87 octane APR tune on daughter's 1.8, I'd highly recommend it.

 

[DerHase]

Even when I was seeing nearly 20 deg of knock on all cylinders on track - I never heard anything audibly. These cars don't have audible marbles-in-a-bag type sound like some other cars do when knocking (like Nissan 3.5s or Hyundia 2.4s tend to do).

I agree with the above it is probably just hearing stuff rattle due to low RPM low load. Especially if you're not logging knock or setting DTCs etc.

 

[plastermaster]

Thanks for the replies. I definitely am not getting the EPC light, but not sure if my car is equipped with one, and I don't have a way of reading codes. Good to know it probably is just a rattle. As for codes, if I am getting some engine knock, would it be recorded and verifiable with a scanner?

 

[DerHase]

Thanks for the replies. I definitely am not getting the EPC light, but not sure if my car is equipped with one, and I don't have a way of reading codes. Good to know it probably is just a rattle. As for codes, if I am getting some engine knock, would it be recorded and verifiable with a scanner?

Only if you're watching live data. To be clear: the knock sensors on stock engines are super sensitive. They are meant to be very conservative and retard a bit of timing when necessary. A little here and there is absolutely zero problem. If you see > 3.0 deg or so then there might be an issue worth exploring (or bad fuel, etc). Easiest way to tell if it's "false" knock is to throw a gallon of E85 in the tank right before filling up with 93. If it's still registering knock with that then there's probably a mechanical rattling (heat shield, exhaust, etc) that's triggering the sensors to pull timing.

I'm 99% none of that is necessary, just leaving for others if they happen to see this in a search, etc.

 

[odessa.filez]

My 1.8 auto sucks on hills in D, especially in the summer. Until it warms up, I'm driving in S.

Likewise, downshifts are sometimes clunky in the heat.

I would get a pedal box. I bought a Burger Motorsports version used for slightly more than 100.

Used JB4 is cheap as well, but would need higher octane fillups. As noted, there is an 87 octane tune out there if that's your typical octane.

 

[YamR1rider]

To be clear: the knock sensors on stock engines are super sensitive.

Totally agree...some more than others. A big part of the reason for putting the APR tune on daughters 145k miles car was that after I'd replaced all plugs, coilpacks, injectors and done a carbon cleaning, very occasionally and randomly when the car was lukewarm and lugging along in D under light throttle, it would shudder and trip the EPC light. Turn on/off, all good to go. Code being thrown was 'cylinder pressure too high' followed with hide cylinder (on any one of the four). After a lot of researching around, it transpired that some 2015/16 1.8 MQB cars had experienced the same and a software fix was available. I also read that the APR tune also took care of the false-knock issue, so I went that route and voila, issue is now long gone....and due to the tune the car drives way better in an OEM+ way than stock as a bonus

Again, OP as they guys above also mentioned if your car isn't throwing codes or or EPC light you've got nothing to worry about - just normal behavior of the 09G trans. If you've a mind to tune, go for it. I believe APR currently has a sale on too.

 

[plastermaster]

Thanks all for putting me at ease with the knocking. I'm looking forward to the tune. I'm not seeing a sale currently, but the price of tuning for our cars is quite reasonable. Porsche is twice as much for a much smaller % increase in power.

@ odessa.filez, Interesting idea about the peddle box. Maybe I'm just used to what I have but my throttle response seems fine, other than when I confuse it with my left foot braking. I will observe it carefully the next time I drive to see if there is room for improvement.

 

[YamR1rider]

This one here.... 10 percent off:

https://www.goapr.com/blog/post/apr_oktunerfest_software_sale/

 

[tigeo]

My 1.8 auto sucks on hills in D, especially in the summer. Until it warms up, I'm driving in S.

Likewise, downshifts are sometimes clunky in the heat.

I would get a pedal box. I bought a Burger Motorsports version used for slightly more than 100.

Used JB4 is cheap as well, but would need higher octane fillups. As noted, there is an 87 octane tune out there if that's your typical octane.

Pedal box = win. Even with teh DSG and a tune, the pedal box sorts out wanting to be in too high of a gear/lugging...no more almost having to floor it to get the downshift.

 

[kyLman]

This one here.... 10 percent off:

https://www.goapr.com/blog/post/apr_oktunerfest_software_sale/

I wish all the APR dealers around me werent so.... shady. I talked to each of them on the phone and they just never sound sure of what theyre talking about. I'd rather do the upgrade myself

 

[plastermaster]

@ Tigeo: "Pedal box = win. Even with teh DSG and a tune, the pedal box sorts out wanting to be in too high of a gear/lugging...no more almost having to floor it to get the downshift."

The pedal box got me thinking....With the ECU tune basically just changing boost, and the fact that there is a separate tune needed for changing the auto transmission, will my triptionic trans adapt itself to optimum shift rpms? Currently it is set to optimize shifting at certain points depending on load and rpm. The ECU tune changes the power band so the optimum shift points should change as well. Or, do I need to manually override to get the most out of the tune?

 

[tigeo]

@ Tigeo: "Pedal box = win. Even with teh DSG and a tune, the pedal box sorts out wanting to be in too high of a gear/lugging...no more almost having to floor it to get the downshift."

The pedal box got me thinking....With the ECU tune basically just changing boost, and the fact that there is a separate tune needed for changing the auto transmission, will my triptionic trans adapt itself to optimum shift rpms? Currently it is set to optimize shifting at certain points depending on load and rpm. The ECU tune changes the power band so the optimum shift points should change as well. Or, do I need to manually override to get the most out of the tune?

It won't "adapt itself to optimum shift rpms".

 

[plastermaster]

I focused yesterday on the pedal travel in different situations while driving, and overall I am fine with it. What I see could be improved goes back to my OP about being reluctant to downshift when I am moseying up a hill. If I am driving more spiritedly it isn't a problem but if I am taking it slow I often have to shift into sport mode, or paddle downshift. Just giving it more gas requires and inordinate amount of peddle travel. Or, I don't worry about my car idling up the hill at 50 RPM and just go along for the ride.

 

[tigeo]

I focused yesterday on the pedal travel in different situations while driving, and overall I am fine with it. What I see could be improved goes back to my OP about being reluctant to downshift when I am moseying up a hill. If I am driving more spiritedly it isn't a problem but if I am taking it slow I often have to shift into sport mode, or paddle downshift. Just giving it more gas requires and inordinate amount of peddle travel. Or, I don't worry about my car idling up the hill at 50 RPM and just go along for the ride.

This specific situation is where my pedal tuner box (used BMS I picked up on FB Marketplace) shines...it really changes/fixes that issue...just a slight lean into it and it downshifts. I run my on the highest setting.