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Dedicated track pad and 2 piece rotors

reverend_sean

Ready to race!
Location
Pittsburgh
Rockauto has rotors starting at 12$ for some of my cars, 15$ for gti. Some ppl spend more on starbucks daily
Wow. I am devout to FCP Euro for their replacement program, but I am impressed to see 340mm blanks for $30 + shipping at RockAuto. I looked for rotors there like 2 years ago and at the time they were comparable to FCP's pricing. Then again, I guess it only costs me $50 out of pocket to return rotors to FCP so at this point I will keep using them (and that's how they git you). LOL. I do love FCP though.

thanks, been lurking for a while. I'm now compiling parts in preparation for its first track day, this forum has been a big help. My Evo X lasted all of 9 months before it became a time attack car. I'm hoping I can make it at least two years before I put a cage in the GTI.
Welcome morricus! It's good to have yet another track focused person here playing with these cars!
 

Stija

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Az
Ride
BMW Saab Subaru VW
@reverend_sean yea rock auto is where I shop first for maintenance for last decade+. Exceptional customer service when needed and rock bottom prices. They simply rock, what can I say.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
Brakes are improved by replacing them with bigger brakes.

Slots are nice in extreme conditions.

Holes are an astronomical amount of overkill with drawbacks.

Ducts are all benefit with no drawback.

Unless you're one of the five people on Earth still using turbofan wheels... Well, that's pretty much all there is to it aside from pad compound.

Bigger, firmer, as many as possible... When considering a brake system modification, just ask yourself: "Would this improve a pile of penises?"

If so, you're on the right track.
 

SouthFL_Mk7.5

Go Kart Newbie
Location
South Florida
Ride
2019 GTI S
Brakes are improved by replacing them with bigger brakes.

Slots are nice in extreme conditions.

Holes are an astronomical amount of overkill with drawbacks.

Ducts are all benefit with no drawback.

Unless you're one of the five people on Earth still using turbofan wheels... Well, that's pretty much all there is to it aside from pad compound.

Bigger, firmer, as many as possible... When considering a brake system modification, just ask yourself: "Would this improve a pile of penises?"

If so, you're on the right track.
The whole purpose of this 2pc rotor/ track pad combo was to see if I could avoid going bbk (for now).

In December at Sebring, using Porterfield R4S (street/track compound) I broke 7 or 8/10ths at most and when exploring 9/10ths there was fade.

I spoke with Porterfield and they suggested running R4 up front. What’s nice is that the R4 and R4S can share the same rotor due to the similar compound, so I can interchange them on Monday.

I’m out here and almost everyone in blue and red groups (int/adv) are using 2pc rotors- so there’s got to be something there. I do see how the venting has both sides of the rotor to work with as opposed to only the inside face with blanks.

Today I’m out there braking as hard as I can and this setup won’t fade!
 

SouthFL_Mk7.5

Go Kart Newbie
Location
South Florida
Ride
2019 GTI S
Vid from yesterday. Hot brakes!


Swapped the R4 out for the R4S up front this morning for daily driver duty. The R4 did have the cement truck rotor grind braking at stoplights on the drive home yesterday, so I didn’t explore their daily driveability further into the work week.


Pics from pad swap today. Black outer circumference paint at rotor veins is gone. R4 pads are white/grey. They were black yesterday.
4E64EA4F-8B8B-4397-AD48-CE6361019B30.jpeg
8F18C217-C02C-40FF-80B0-059FE2FAC267.jpeg


Although everything performed to my expectations, I do see how a caliper rebuild will be probably necessary after a few more track days on race pads. This is when BBK upgrade may begin to make sense.
 
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victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
I'm not sure how you're not cooking those R4s rears. I ran the R4s in rear with DS2500 up front, and I completely cooked them in one day. Traction control was totally off, and I trail brake on most corners. The DS2500 have held up okay, but they definitely fade and my rotors are totally crazed. I'm going to G-loc R10/R8 this year on OE rotors; hopefully those will handle heat better, but we will see.
 

SouthFL_Mk7.5

Go Kart Newbie
Location
South Florida
Ride
2019 GTI S
I'm not sure how you're not cooking those R4s rears. I ran the R4s in rear with DS2500 up front, and I completely cooked them in one day. Traction control was totally off, and I trail brake on most corners. The DS2500 have held up okay, but they definitely fade and my rotors are totally crazed. I'm going to G-loc R10/R8 this year on OE rotors; hopefully those will handle heat better, but we will see.
I was surprised they held up as well! I’ll continue using this combo as long as they hold up!

Years ago, I did have an R4S rear pad completely shear off its backing plate after a track weekend. When backing out of the driveway to work on Monday morning after the track weekend, there was a loud pop and bang. The pad had stuck to the rotor after a rainy Sunday night monsoon! It cracked in half and came off the backing plate. It was cooked beyond its limits that weekend. That was on an RX8.
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Get rid of those dust shields on the front and get the RS3 deflectors :D . The rotor needs air from somewhere, and it comes from the inside facing the dust shield. If you don't have ducting coming in, just get the dust shields off. That will greatly extend the life of your pads and rotors. The more aggressive pads should definitely help.
 

reverend_sean

Ready to race!
Location
Pittsburgh
Dust shields (more commonly known as splash shields) also serve as heat shields (and debris shields). They block radiant heat from the ball joint, tie rod ends, cv joints, and shock etc. Obviously, the brake temps and heat soak when track driving are significantly higher than when you are just daily driving the car. What I am not sure about is whether I am doing damage to the other parts while running without shields in search of cooler rotor temps (I have the RS3 deflectors and I typically pull the shields off in the summer for better track day cooling). Any automotive engineers here that can chime in?

After spending some time researching this through a few different searches a year or so ago (GRM, various car forums like Rennlist, Miata.net, bimmerforums) I think the vast majority of people believe you get a net benefit (cooler brakes during track sessions) and almost no negative effects (thermally degraded grease or advanced deterioration of rubber pieces). I plan to pull them off again in prep of my first track sessions this year.
 
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victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Dust shields (more commonly known as splash shields) also serve as heat shields (and debris shields). They block radiant heat from the ball joint, tie rod ends, cv joints, and shock etc. Obviously, the brake temps and heat soak when track driving are significantly higher than when you are just daily driving the car. What I am not sure about is whether I am doing damage to the other parts while running without shields in search of cooler rotor temps (I have the RS3 deflectors and I typically pull the shields off in the summer for better track day cooling). Any automotive engineers here that can chime in?

After spending some time researching this through a few different searches a year or so ago (GRM, various car forums like Rennlist, Miata.net, bimmerforums) I think the vast majority of people believe you get a net benefit (cooler brakes during track sessions) and almost no negative effects (thermally degraded grease or advanced deterioration of rubber pieces). I plan to pull them off again in prep of my first track sessions this year.
I asked my mechanic this exact question the other day, and we had a good discussion about it. FWIW, he's a crew chief for two pro teams, has raced for 30 years, and knows his stuff. He said rip off the shields and don't worry about it, there won't be any real world impact. The effects you listed above are all theory.

From a physics/engineering perspective (I am not technically an engineer, but with six more classes I could have been a triple major including a physics and an engineering discipline), on track the dust shield will ensure the rotor retains heat, and as a result it will get quite hot itself. Since heat can't escape the rotor area, it will continue to build and make the heat shield hotter and hotter. Remember that the shield is also connected to the hub area and will transfer heat by contact. By removing the shields, if the rotor runs cooler, there is less heat overall to radiate into the hub and surrounding areas. <- This is theory, and the only thing that can really be done to prove this is experimentation. Luckily, a lot of people have been ripping off their heatshields with no long term impact to other components, so we can use that as a sample. Anecdotal, sure, but it's some evidence, which is better than none/pure theory.

If you're street driving and want to have cleaner wheels, cleaner wheel well, and you don't wash your car regularly, then the dust shield will serve a very good purpose.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Newbie
Location
FL
After tracking an 18 S for one year, I can tell you that the brakes transferred massive amounts of heat to hubs, shields, wheels, and even tires. Everything was heat soaked and I melted center caps and plastic hub rings.
 

victorofhavoc

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kansas City
After tracking an 18 S for one year, I can tell you that the brakes transferred massive amounts of heat to hubs, shields, wheels, and even tires. Everything was heat soaked and I melted center caps and plastic hub rings.
Very true. Plastic hub rings should never be used on track. I have burned myself on wheels checking pressures many, many times. The amount of heat the rotors can carry is insane. 1400*F is no joke!! However, if you bring that down by 200*, the difference is pretty huge.
 
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