Brakes Brakes Brakes

[Kurve]

I did my first track day in my 2017 base GTI this weekend and I had too much fun. So much fun that I lost most of my brakes in the second to the last session causing me to hit the grass. Pedal pressure was fine, but almost no stopping was occurring. Pretty sure I greased the front pads.

I'm on stock non pp brakes BUT I'm running Ferodo DS2500 front pads and motel 600 dot 4 fluid. Needless to say I still had issues.

Just curious as to what everyone is running with non pp brakes. I want to have a little more confidence out there.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Keehs360]

wow, rbf 600 can usually take some heat just fine. might of just been the pads that were a bit too hot. i dont even know what to suggest. i want to say keep the pads and go with rbf 660 but i dont know if that will improve things at all. i would wait till @jay745 and the other track rats come in.

in your opinion, do you think you're doing a good job managing your brakes?

 

[GTIfan99]

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...brembo-upgrade-thread-read-first-post.371028/

 

[Kurve]

wow, rbf 600 can usually take some heat just fine. might of just been the pads that were a bit too hot. i dont even know what to suggest. i want to say keep the pads and go with rbf 660 but i dont know if that will improve things at all. i would wait till @jay745 and the other track rats come in.

in your opinion, do you think you're doing a good job managing your brakes?

Yeah the front pads getting too hot was the conclusion I came to. Again pedal pressure was oddly completely normal when I hit the brakes. When I went into the pits I was told that my front brakes were smoking quite a lot so I did some cool down pit laps.

As for driving I have to admit that this particular session was the most aggressive. I was going back and forth with a friend of mine having some fun. Although I would say that I was only into ABS a couple of times.

I backed off the pace slightly in the last session and the brakes were completely fine. Maybe they didn't properly bed in until then? I've only done mountain roads in the car prior

 

[Kurve]

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...brembo-upgrade-thread-read-first-post.371028/

Interesting. I'll definitely look into those. Seems like a worth while upgrade

 

[GTIfan99]

Interesting. I'll definitely look into those. Seems like a worth while upgrade

Honestly, depends on how much you plan on tracking and what size wheels your want to run.

 

[R Golf]

That setup should be sufficient for a first track day. Did you bed in the pads properly on the street before going to the track? Before using DS2500's on track you have to go through Ferodo's bedding process. It is quite hard on the pads, they'l be smoking when you're done, but necessary.

 

[Kurve]

That setup should be sufficient for a first track day. Did you bed in the pads properly on the street before going to the track? Before using DS2500's on track you have to go through Ferodo's bedding process. It is quite hard on the pads, they'l be smoking when you're done, but necessary.

I only did a few hard stops when I first put them in. They were definitely not to the point of smoking. Maybe I did do the bedding process on track lol

 

[R Golf]

I only did a few hard stops when I first put them in. They were definitely not to the point of smoking. Maybe I did do the bedding process on track lol

I wouldn't spend big $$ yet. Your setup should be fine for the first couple of years of HPDE. Not bedding the pads is very likely the source of your problem due to glazing the pads on track. That's why your pedal pressure was fine yet you had no brakes. When you buy the pads you must do about 20 pretty agressive stops from about 50-60mph to 15mph or so. There should have been instructions with the pads. You need to leave as little time between stops as possible so that the brakes don't cool down. You can drive them on the street without issue as long as you don't do any panic stops, so you can drive to a road with little enough traffic to get this done. The pads will be smoking after you are done. Once you finish that you are good to go on track and do not need to repeat the process again until your next set. I would swap the pads you have now and start fresh.

I run in advanced run groups and ran DS2500 with Motul 660 for years with no problems, doing 10-12 track days per year and street miles, although I have the R brakes. Your problem is not the fluid because you had a hard pedal. Last year I switched to stickier tires so I was overcooking the DS2500's late in the sessions. This year I switched to Ferodo DS 3.1.2 front and 1.1.1 rear. They have to get to 500 degrees C (!) during their break in so it takes a lot of stops to get them there. Having said that, they have been incredible on stock calipers and rotors on aggressive braking tracks.

 

[Kurve]

I wouldn't spend big $$ yet. Your setup should be fine for the first couple of years of HPDE. Not bedding the pads is very likely the source of your problem due to glazing the pads on track. That's why your pedal pressure was fine yet you had no brakes. When you buy the pads you must do about 20 pretty agressive stops from about 50-60mph to 15mph or so. There should have been instructions with the pads. You need to leave as little time between stops as possible so that the brakes don't cool down. You can drive them on the street without issue as long as you don't do any panic stops, so you can drive to a road with little enough traffic to get this done. The pads will be smoking after you are done. Once you finish that you are good to go on track and do not need to repeat the process again until your next set. I would swap the pads you have now and start fresh.

I run in advanced run groups and ran DS2500 with Motul 660 for years with no problems, doing 10-12 track days per year and street miles, although I have the R brakes. Your problem is not the fluid because you had a hard pedal. Last year I switched to stickier tires so I was overcooking the DS2500's late in the sessions. This year I switched to Ferodo DS 3.1.2 front and 1.1.1 rear. They have to get to 500 degrees C (!) during their break in so it takes a lot of stops to get them there. Having said that, they have been incredible on stock calipers and rotors on aggressive braking tracks.

Wow thanks for the info. I did not know that at all. Most likely my issue. I guess these aren't some auto zone ceramics lol.

Out of curiosity, how sticky are your tires? I'm running Hankook RS4s

 

[kep]

The ferodo pads should be sufficient, although I am also on R/PP brakes on my car. Try installing RS3 ducts - those do seem to help.

Since this is your first time in track, I wonder if your braking technique could be at fault. Dragging brakes too long can result in elevated temperatures compared to a stronger, quicker pedal application.

 

[jay745]

Bite the bullet and buy SRF fluid. Rbf600/660 is all junk. It's $70 a bottle vs 10-15 but worth every penny

 

[kep]

Bite the bullet and buy SRF fluid. Rbf600/660 is all junk. It's $70 a bottle vs 10-15 but worth every penny

Kurve said pedal pressure was fine. This would indicate the fluid was not the culprit.

 

[R Golf]

Kurve said pedal pressure was fine. This would indicate the fluid was not the culprit.

Agree, as started above fluid is not the culprit here. Also rbf 600 and 660 are by far the most used brake fluid at HPDE at all levels.
Shop I know in VA handles much of Audi's vintage cars as well as their own largerace team.. Only use 600/660.

 

[GTI_TRACK_RAT]

If you want to keep your stock non pp brakes I would switch to the Powerstop trackday spec pads. They are honestly a hidden gem. They make a ton of noise and will destroy your rotors if you don't swap them out for daily driving. They are true track pads so they don't come with any hardware, they will rattle around in your calipers at slow speeds, but once you do a track session or two they will mold to your caliper and stop moving around.

https://www.powerstop.com/product/power-stop-track-day-spec-brake-pads/