APR Pendulum Mount & Dogbone Insert

[Ezekiel81923]

People use these half-asssed solutions because of EXACTLY what Klrider44 said... they don't want to drop their subframe and they don't have any experience with better than mediocre solutions to compare to so they listen to the next guy with the same story. It's the EXACT same reason 90% of MK7 owners only have a RSB (minus the autocross guys).

New to GTI's so maybe I need to do more homework, but...

Is the only way to replace the upper part of the stock bushing to drop the subframe? I'm not clear on what dropping the subframe gains us access to.

On my old car the rear motor mounts / dogbones were much easier to get to, and the aftermarket solutions were solid arms and replacement, heavy duro bushings (mine was 88 duro, NVH FTW). Most of what I see for the GTI's is bushing inserts that would seem ineffective and fairly chinsy arms compared to what I had on my Speed. My line of thought is if it doesn't add any NVH than how much stiffer could it be than what you just took off? But I've also gathered that I'm less NVH averse than a lot of people on this forum (nothing but love to you all).

I was going to go with the Racingline mount because it appeared to be the most solid and most complete looking solution but if I can't just crawl under there and swap it out then I understand where the pain is coming from.

 

[launchd]

New to GTI's so maybe I need to do more homework, but...

Is the only way to replace the upper part of the stock bushing to drop the subframe? I'm not clear on what dropping the subframe gains us access to.

On my old car the rear motor mounts / dogbones were much easier to get to, and the aftermarket solutions were solid arms and replacement, heavy duro bushings (mine was 88 duro, NVH FTW). Most of what I see for the GTI's is bushing inserts that would seem ineffective and fairly chinsy arms compared to what I had on my Speed. My line of thought is if it doesn't add any NVH than how much stiffer could it be than what you just took off? But I've also gathered that I'm less NVH averse than a lot of people on this forum (nothing but love to you all).

I was going to go with the Racingline mount because it appeared to be the most solid and most complete looking solution but if I can't just crawl under there and swap it out then I understand where the pain is coming from.

Yes, dropping the subframe allows you to remove the upper part of the OEM subframe bushing... this piece of shit... just look at it...

But, most won't do it because they can't be bothered and why would they do it when so many cheap (and less labor) alternatives exist?

I was going to use the VWR mount until I was told they were failing, I don't trust them now.

 

[Ezekiel81923]

Yea, that's annoying.

I just don't see how an insert, even the billet inserts, could be a legitimate long-term fix when they by their nature utilize the shitty stock bushing.

I imagine paying a shop the labor to do the top and bottom bushing for you is rather cost prohibitive as well.

 

[Klrider44]

People use these half-asssed solutions because of EXACTLY what Klrider44 said... they don't want to drop their subframe and they don't have any experience with better than mediocre solutions to compare to so they listen to the next guy with the same story. It's the EXACT same reason 90% of MK7 owners only have a RSB (minus the autocross guys).

First off I’m not saying the roc euro arm with the power flex hybrid is the end all be all, but what I am saying is that I like the setup and it has been working for me. The real test will be when I go to the track with some slicks once I get my e30 vortex xl tune finalized.

This is kinda what modding cars and this community is about, people see what works on different levels. I am exceeding stock levels by a lot and it’s been working well and at the end of the day we are driving GTI’s so clearly we all have a budget in mind when it comes to cars. Now when I get into a TTRS, my parts selection might be a little different when compared to my GTI.

 

[IanCH]

This picture seems to indicate that the Roc euro piece reinforces the stock dogbone. Is this correct?

edit: confirmed, definitely seems like a stronger option than the aluminum pendulums now...

 

[Ezekiel81923]

First off I’m not saying the roc euro arm with the power flex hybrid is the end all be all, but what I am saying is that I like the setup and it has been working for me. The real test will be when I go to the track with some slicks once I get my e30 vortex xl tune finalized.

This is kinda what modding cars and this community is about, people see what works on different levels. I am exceeding stock levels by a lot and it’s been working well and at the end of the day we are driving GTI’s so clearly we all have a budget in mind when it comes to cars. Now when I get into a TTRS, my parts selection might be a little different when compared to my GTI.

I know this wasn't directed at me but I agree completely.

Being new to the platform it's just interesting to see something that was such an easy fix on one car involves a ton of trial and error and effort on another. Especially when they are not vastly different platforms, it just all comes down to engineering. I'm all for mods that are one and done, set it and forget it, be all end all options but that's a bit of a misnomer a lot of times in the car world.

I may still go the heavy duty racingline route but this roc euro / Powerflex option seems like a good alternative, especially for the price. If the insert firms up both the top and bottom of the stock bushing (some only take care of the bottom, correct?) then even if it fails a few years down the line, doing it twice is cheaper and easier than other alternatives.

 

[Gptuners]

Hey, if you're dropping the subframe anyway, just all the benefits with a single piece...

https://paddockperformance.com/audi...f-mk7-mqb-front-lightweight-tubular-subframe/

 

[launchd]

Yea, that's annoying.

I just don't see how an insert, even the billet inserts, could be a legitimate long-term fix when they by their nature utilize the shitty stock bushing.

I imagine paying a shop the labor to do the top and bottom bushing for you is rather cost prohibitive as well.

The labor isn't too bad... If you consider installing a FSB and the Tyrolsport deadset kit at the same time, that labor cost becomes three upgrades at a shop that isn't ripping you off.

View attachment 182902

This picture seems to indicate that the Roc euro piece reinforces the stock dogbone. Is this correct?

edit: confirmed, definitely seems like a stronger option than the aluminum pendulums now...

You mean the Powerflex insert in those photos? Yes, it fills the voids of the OEM lower/upper rubber bushing.

The Powerflex lower bushing replaces the lower OEM bushing and fills the voids of the upper OEM bushing (better than just their insert). But at the end of the day, you're still relying on this rubber bushing (upper and lower with an insert or upper with a lower bushing replacement) that is meant for a stock car and comfort.

Just to reiterate, Poweflex sells two solutions - an insert that goes into the OEM lower and upper which just fills the voids of both and a lower bushing that replaces the entire lower and fills the voids of the upper.

 

[launchd]

I'm just going to post this here because it's relevant and I think people should read this. If you believe this was due to a bad install, so be it. With what happened to my APR parts and the condition of the OEM rubber bushing (lower & upper) that came out of my car during the install of my new mount, I am convinced this transmission housing cracked not because of an install issue. My STEEL arm (that has a spherical bearing to allow movement) TWISTED. My arm gave out (thank god), his didn't and as a result? Transmission was replaced. You want to use the RocEuro arm? Be my guest. I would HIGHLY suggest at least upgrading the lower bushing with the Powerflex option for more support if you do use this arm.

 

[IanCH]

I'm just going to post this here because it's relevant and I think people should read this. If you believe this was due to a bad install, so be it. With what happened to my APR parts and the condition of the OEM rubber bushing (lower & upper) that came out of my car during the install of my new mount, I am convinced this transmission housing cracked not because of an install issue. My STEEL arm (that has a spherical bearing to allow movement) TWISTED. My arm gave out (thank god), his didn't and as a result? Transmission was replaced. You want to use the RocEuro arm? Be my guest. I would HIGHLY suggest at least upgrading the lower bushing with the Powerflex option for more support if you do use this arm.

I got the powerflex bushing, not the insert, to use in tandem.

That thread reads entirely like installer error (especially since he said once he removed it he found the other bolt that hadn't broken the housing was hand loose). It's definitely helpful to know exactly what I should look for on the install. Something that happens once is an anecdote.

 

[launchd]

I got the powerflex bushing, not the insert, to use in tandem.

That thread reads entirely like installer error (especially since he said once he removed it he found the other bolt that hadn't broken the housing was hand loose). It's definitely helpful to know exactly what I should look for on the install. Something that happens once is an anecdote.

Sounds good to me I guess.

One last thing... why does VW and all the other major performance companies for our platform seem to think this pendulum mount should be able to move?

OEM pendulum mount
ECS pendulum mount
APR pendulum mount
034 pendulum mount

Oh and uh, RocEuro doesn't... and has story about a transmission cracking.

RocEuro piece of metal

Good luck!

 

[Desslok]

Just because it "holds up" on your car doesn't mean it's a good solution. What have you had on your car other than this thin piece of metal and likely an insert to compare to?

This is a custom 9 second car solution, see the difference? Not a thin piece of metal, not reusing the shitty OEM rubber bushing.

View attachment 182881
View attachment 182882

I do see the difference and paying for this "custom 9 second car solution" and the labor for dropping the subframe seems like a swell idea. Just as soon as my car breaks into the 9s.

 

[launchd]

I do see the difference and paying for this "custom 9 second car solution" and the labor for dropping the subframe seems like a swell idea. Just as soon as my car breaks into the 9s.

You think that this is only a good solution for a 9 second car, is that what you're stating here?

I'm sure you couldn't be bothered with dropping your subframe, installing a real mount, reinforcing with a deadset kit and getting an alignment. It's too expensive (or hard) to do the right thing for your "performance" car, you're right.

 

[IanCH]

Sounds good to me I guess.

One last thing... why does VW and all the other major performance companies for our platform seem to think this pendulum mount should be able to move?

OEM pendulum mount
ECS pendulum mount
APR pendulum mount
034 pendulum mount

Oh and uh, RocEuro doesn't... and has story about a transmission cracking.

RocEuro piece of metal

Good luck!

Quote from their page: We left it raw because it does flex, which is why it doesn't break.

 

[mk6'12gti]

Question... From those pictures, I can't tell if that is their lower puck or their insert. If it was already installed when you got the car, how do you know which product this is? They look the same when they're installed unless I'm missing something.

Good question now that you say not I'm not sure. So I got under my car while it was on the lift took a better pic and looks like the hybrid replacement to me