2019 GTI 6MT Stalling Issue

[zinfamous]

I also always thought it was weird that it only shut down at a complete stop, and I have heard other people say that perhaps it's a start / stop code applied to a manual transmission. The two things that make me think this isn't the case is the randomness of it, and there has to be a bunch of people working on this, flashing cars all the time to try and figure it out, I can't believe someone would miss this.


That VW hasn't figured it out after all these months makes me think it could be something that can't actually be fixed.

Sometimes people can’t see the woods for the trees!!

I spoke of how I thought it might be a phantom stop/start issue far far back in this thread, I still believe it and I’m sticking to that theory! The apparent randomness of stalls car to car though would have me believe it couldn’t be a stop/start issue, the manor of driving, along with usual stop/start prerequisites that stop the system cutting in on cars to which it IS fitted, such as steering angle, battery charge etc could account for the apparent randomness though, so for now I still believe this is the issue, particularly as it is only happening on cars to which stop/start is not fitted, I know some DSG owners have reported it and one EU car, but I honestly don’t believe those to be the same issue.

again: it doesn't only stall at a complete stop. For most owners, it usually stalls in motion, coasting into a stop, while in neutral or clutch down.

The car isn't always stopped when it stalls, so it's not like auto start/stop. It also stalls within a second or two of a full stop. Not at all like auto start/stop.

The engine shuts off in the "same quiet way," but that's it. Does that make sense?

I guess it's more accurate to say that it's not like a user-error stall (a bit violent) than to say that it's like auto start-stop, because the latter misses a lot of the actual behavior.

 

[Carlosfandang0]

again: it doesn't only stall at a complete stop. For most owners, it usually stalls in motion, coasting into a stop, while in neutral or clutch down.



The car isn't always stopped when it stalls, so it's not like auto start/stop. It also stalls within a second or two of a full stop. Not at all like auto start/stop.



The engine shuts off in the "same quiet way," but that's it. Does that make sense?



I guess it's more accurate to say that it's not like a user-error stall (a bit violent) than to say that it's like auto start-stop, because the latter misses a lot of the actual behavior.

Stop/start can and does shut off before coming to a stop, it’s documented in the user manual, yes i totally agree that some of the other symptoms don’t lend themselves to it being stop/start related, but who’s to say it will behave exactly as stop/start would, considering that it shouldn’t be functioning at all! I had a manual 2019 loaner not so long ago and being that it is a UK car it had stop/start, it behaved exactly as you guys describe the stalling except it would restart!

I’m not, in any way saying you are wrong, and I’m definitely not saying I’m correct, it’s just my theory on the subject that’s all, it shouldn’t be long before VW finally sort it out, so until then we’re all just making educated guesses at best!

 

[sean.mason.75873]

I think the real issue is actual timing vs requested timing. It also explains the poor driveability, gas mileage and killing the O2 sensor in my cara case.

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[dietcokefiend]

I think the real issue is actual timing vs requested timing. It also explains the poor driveability, gas mileage and killing the O2 sensor in my cara case.

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Bingo. And we've seen enough hardware thrown at it to realize the hardware itself isn't really the main defect. It's the software stopping to tell the hardware what to do.

 

[Inka Orange]

I think the real issue is actual timing vs requested timing. It also explains the poor driveability, gas mileage and killing the O2 sensor in my cara case.

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In my (somewhat less than expert) mind, I keep coming back to wondering if in some cars the cam phaser is seeing less than adequate oil pressure needed for correct timing operation.

With the new for 2019 oil spec, and previously talked about updated oil pump, is oil pressure living on the hairy edge of being satisfactory for the cam phaser to operate correctly?

Adding in the amount of stalls reported here happening at fully warmed oil temps where pressure could be lower than cold, keeps me going back to this thought.

 

[sean.mason.75873]

In my (somewhat less than expert) mind, I keep coming back to wondering if in some cars the cam phaser is seeing less than adequate oil pressure needed for correct timing operation.



With the new for 2019 oil spec, and previously talked about updated oil pump, is oil pressure living on the hairy edge of being satisfactory for the cam phaser to operate correctly?



Adding in the amount of stalls reported here happening at fully warmed oil temps where pressure could be lower than cold, keeps me going back to this thought.

Entirely possible, as my car improved significantly with 5w-40, but I think this is a compound issue, meaning 2 or more contributing factors, that's why it's been so hard to fix.

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[alexdrod]

again: it doesn't only stall at a complete stop. For most owners, it usually stalls in motion, coasting into a stop, while in neutral or clutch down.

The car isn't always stopped when it stalls, so it's not like auto start/stop. It also stalls within a second or two of a full stop. Not at all like auto start/stop.

Yup. I had it stall on Friday night when I had the clutch in and was rolling toward a left turn.

When I got home and parked it, it started shaking pretty bad when I put the car in reverse. Does anyone know what the heck that was about?

 

[sean.mason.75873]

As has been said before, actual timing is likely different from requested.



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[oXRagin MooseXo]

As has been said before, actual timing is likely different from requested.



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Based on being able to reproduce this a half dozen times with the dealership hooked up to the OBDII port running diagnostics I think this is the main issue as they measured large gaps in actual positions versus expected. The light oil weight may be compounding the issue and not having been accounted for properly in the software tune.

'19 GTI Autobahn 6MT - Dark Iron Blue
Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

 

[mediumbluemetallic]

Somewhere, in some office in an engineering room at VW, there's a sheet of paper with every listed thing that changed between 2018 and 2019 on these cars. But instead of reverting these cars back to all 2018 specs and making everything flawless again, they're trying to chase down a phantom and making us suffer. Very frustrating.



I've stalled for sure 11 times in 15 days of ownership, with photos of the gauge cluster. I believe 2 additional times were probably the same type of stalls as well, but I wasn't as sure and didn't write anything down.



For the first time ever today, I witnessed the rough idle that everyone talks about. That's definitely 100% not a start/stop problem. I was at the bottom of the tank (10 miles of range left) and the problem happened several times in a row without stalling, and once it appeared to cause a stall while pulling into a parking space (in contrast to the usual full-stop stalls that I experience). This was at the end of my 2nd ever tank of gas. The first tank was filled by the dealer, possibly 87. The 2nd tank was 93, but it likely had a full galleon or two of 87 mixed with it because I didn't let the range go to zero. After the rough idling at the end of the second tank today, I let the range meter go to zero miles before I filled up with 93, but there was still a 1/2 galleon of gas left in the tank, which possibly contained some 87 still. I'm not really sure if the two octanes would mix like Kool-Aid or if they would stay somewhat separated.



Also of note, the car seemed to be idling lower, closer to 500, when the idle was rough and the gas tank was almost empty. Usually it's closer to 800, even if the car dies at a complete stop. When it was idling funny, it was definitely more like 500, and I could see the "needle" jumping around.



Since my rough idle only happened when the tank was super low, I'm wondering if it was sucking mostly 87 at the bottom. After I refilled with 93, the rough idle appears to have gone away again, for now. I did stall out twice on the new/3rd tank of 93 today, but again, these were back to smooth idle complete stop shut downs. Maybe I have 2 problems. Maybe my rough idle still-moving stalls are from an 87 octane intolerance, and maybe my smooth idle full-stop stalls are related to a start/stop system bug. Probably not, but one can dream.



Anyways, I've rushed to 919 miles as fast as I possibly could, and the stalls show no sign of stopping yet. Maybe in another 80 lol.

 

[dietcokefiend]

Moving back to 2018 would require a recertification of the emissions side. While I'm sure they would love to do that, the fines would be hilariously large or significant cost for the whole process. Nothing about it is simple.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Somewhere, in some office in an engineering room at VW, there's a sheet of paper with every listed thing that changed between 2018 and 2019 on these cars. But instead of reverting these cars back to all 2018 specs and making everything flawless again, they're trying to chase down a phantom and making us suffer. Very frustrating.



I've stalled for sure 11 times in 15 days of ownership, with photos of the gauge cluster. I believe 2 additional times were probably the same type of stalls as well, but I wasn't as sure and didn't write anything down.



For the first time ever today, I witnessed the rough idle that everyone talks about. That's definitely 100% not a start/stop problem. I was at the bottom of the tank (10 miles of range left) and the problem happened several times in a row without stalling, and once it appeared to cause a stall while pulling into a parking space (in contrast to the usual full-stop stalls that I experience). This was at the end of my 2nd ever tank of gas. The first tank was filled by the dealer, possibly 87. The 2nd tank was 93, but it likely had a full galleon or two of 87 mixed with it because I didn't let the range go to zero. After the rough idling at the end of the second tank today, I let the range meter go to zero miles before I filled up with 93, but there was still a 1/2 galleon of gas left in the tank, which possibly contained some 87 still. I'm not really sure if the two octanes would mix like Kool-Aid or if they would stay somewhat separated.



Also of note, the car seemed to be idling lower, closer to 500, when the idle was rough and the gas tank was almost empty. Usually it's closer to 800, even if the car dies at a complete stop. When it was idling funny, it was definitely more like 500, and I could see the "needle" jumping around.



Since my rough idle only happened when the tank was super low, I'm wondering if it was sucking mostly 87 at the bottom. After I refilled with 93, the rough idle appears to have gone away again, for now. I did stall out twice on the new/3rd tank of 93 today, but again, these were back to smooth idle complete stop shut downs. Maybe I have 2 problems. Maybe my rough idle still-moving stalls are from an 87 octane intolerance, and maybe my smooth idle full-stop stalls are related to a start/stop system bug. Probably not, but one can dream.



Anyways, I've rushed to 919 miles as fast as I possibly could, and the stalls show no sign of stopping yet. Maybe in another 80 lol.

The 87 octane doesn't sit at the bottom of the tank. It mixes up just fine with any other octane gas.

 

[oXRagin MooseXo]

The 87 octane doesn't sit at the bottom of the tank. It mixes up just fine with any other octane gas.

Interesting that the stalls are still prevalent with 93 octane. This is the only thing that seems to resolve/mask the constant stalling "feature" for me.

'19 GTI Autobahn 6MT - Dark Iron Blue
Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

 

[mediumbluemetallic]

Interesting that the stalls are still prevalent with 93 octane. This is the only thing that seems to resolve/mask the constant stalling "feature" for me.

'19 GTI Autobahn 6MT - Dark Iron Blue
Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

I'm not entirely convinced that my rough idle wasn't somehow connected to octane. I ONLY experienced that rough idle when the tank was almost empty. Even if the first tank of 87 and the second tank of 93 mixed well, it's entirely possible that the last 1/2 galleon leaned toward 87, like taking a swig from the strong side of a cocktail. The car idled rough at every stop today until the moment I refueled it with 11.5 galleons of 93.



I really think I have 2 separate issues. I think I have the rough idle stalling issue related to octane, which seems prevalent here (where the car sputters and stops while slowing to stop). And I really think I might have some issue with start/stop coding because when the tank is full of 93, the car never idles rough or low and the car only stalls once it has come to a complete stop. I'm probably wrong, but I feel like I've seen two distinctly different stalling behaviors. Either way, I'm going to have the start/stop issue looked into just to be sure.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I'm not entirely convinced that my rough idle wasn't somehow connected to octane. I ONLY experienced that rough idle when the tank was almost empty. Even if the first tank of 87 and the second tank of 93 mixed well, it's entirely possible that the last 1/2 galleon leaned toward 87, like taking a swig from the strong side of a cocktail. The car idled rough at every stop today until the moment I refueled it with 11.5 galleons of 93.



I really think I have 2 separate issues. I think I have the rough idle stalling issue related to octane, which seems prevalent here (where the car sputters and stops while slowing to stop). And I really think I might have some issue with start/stop coding because when the tank is full of 93, the car never idles rough or low and the car only stalls once it has come to a complete stop. I'm probably wrong, but I feel like I've seen two distinctly different stalling behaviors. Either way, I'm going to have the start/stop issue looked into just to be sure.

It isn't anything like taking a swig from the strong side of a cocktail. Those are different fluid compounds that don't necessarily stay mixed. Gasoline is gasoline. When you mix 87 octane with 93 octane or any different octane it stays mixed period. You haven't driven enough miles yet to reach any conclusion but it sure isn't because of different octanes of gasoline not staying mixed. Read the first sentence of the following link.


https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-you-mix-gasoline-of-different-octanes