Michelin PS4S Vs Hankook RS4's for track and street use

[up4speed]

Just for background info. I want a tire that I put on in the summer, and leave on the car to drive (approx 3,000 miles for the summer/track season). I want to drive to the track on track days, and don't want to do tire swaps. I do approximately 5 track days per year only. I want great track performance of course, but I also want them to be good for wet track days, as well as great for daily duties and have a reasonable life expectancy.

I'm getting ready for the 2021 track season, and have used the MPS4S last season. I'm very happy with them, I'm happy with the grip for track use, and I have also used them on a wet track, and was satisfied. So far, the life expectancy seems very good. Actually I would say excellent, except for the edges (I'm running stock camber). If I decide to go with the RS4's (I have read good things) which are a 200 tire, will I lose a significant amount of life expectancy? If so, in return, will I gain a significant amount of grip to make the change worth it?
Since I do low mileage total, I have to take in consideration if the RS4's happen to hold up better on the track when hot, but the MPS4S holds up better with higher mileage on the street, I may actually get a longer life from the RS4's overall since the track is where my tires get the bulk of the wear.
Please give thoughts. I know that there is a lot more to tires than just those two factors. I also know that tire comparisons are spoken about ad nauseum, but I'm trying to find if someone compared these two tires directly, and I would love to hear their experience with them. Thanks!

 

[tpellegr]

Just for background info. I want a tire that I put on in the summer, and leave on the car to drive (approx 3,000 miles for the summer/track season). I want to drive to the track on track days, and don't want to do tire swaps. I do approximately 5 track days per year only. I want great track performance of course, but I also want them to be good for wet track days, as well as great for daily duties and have a reasonable life expectancy.

I'm getting ready for the 2021 track season, and have used the MPS4S last season. I'm very happy with them, I'm happy with the grip for track use, and I have also used them on a wet track, and was satisfied. So far, the life expectancy seems very good. Actually I would say excellent, except for the edges (I'm running stock camber). If I decide to go with the RS4's (I have read good things) which are a 200 tire, will I lose a significant amount of life expectancy? If so, in return, will I gain a significant amount of grip to make the change worth it?
Since I do low mileage total, I have to take in consideration if the RS4's happen to hold up better on the track when hot, but the MPS4S holds up better with higher mileage on the street, I may actually get a longer life from the RS4's overall since the track is where my tires get the bulk of the wear.
Please give thoughts. I know that there is a lot more to tires than just those two factors. I also know that tire comparisons are spoken about ad nauseum, but I'm trying to find if someone compared these two tires directly, and I would love to hear their experience with them. Thanks!

I don't have any experience w the RS4s, but I would say probably worth checking out the RE71Rs. From what I've heard they get pretty solid mileage for dual use and are quite quick and puns a track (they are 200tw). Depending on budget, I would also checkout the Michelin Cup 2s. They are great at the track, can be used on the street, and have good life. I run A052s on my Miata as summer and track tire and (like you) drive very few miles in general. They tend to wear a bit quicker though. Good luck.

 

[R Golf]

Over the past 4 years I have run MPSS, MPS4's, RE71's and Cup 2's with very similar requirements to you. I don't swap tires during track season. I do about 10 track days and 12K street miles per year. I do NOT run track events in the rain, but will drive long distances through downpours on the street. I have no experience with the Hankooks.

I have Stage 1 hi torque, rear sway, camber plates, and IC . Stock R suspension and brakes using Fereodo DS2500's and Motul 660.

Please keep in mind that without camber adjustment you are going to have a problem with outer tire wear, especially as you get faster. It may be worth checking this out, because handling will be superior as well and it is good bang for the buck. Note: I'm assuming GTi will have similar characteristics to R with this change.

These would be my two tire choices in your situation. Both are pricey but fit within your choices.

For street first/ track second the PS4's were best. Good grip. Decent wear. Very quiet. Would take these over the PSS in all conditions.

Giving up a bit in wear (maybe one less track day) are the Cup2's which are my absolute favorite for track/street, and what is on my car now. Excellent in both conditions. Noticeably more grip than the PS4's (+0.1 - 0.2 g in most turns) and good street noise and harshness for such a great track tire. Tremendous feedback while on track and very progressive slip. Love 'em.

I am one of the maybe few who does not like the RE71's. Wear was a little worse than the Cup 2's. I thought they gave up the ghost on track well before the Cup 2's, and they sucked on the street. Feedback wasn't nearly as linear as Cup2's as well. Having said that, lap times were close between the RE71's and Cup2's with the Cup 2's only slightly faster, but I enjoyed driving the Cup 2's way more.

I'm pretty sure the Cup2's are now replaced by the Cup 2 connects which "promise" equal or better lap times and longer tread wear. I've spoken to TireRack and two calls to Michelin and I don't think they are blowing smoke. The whole "connect" apparatus and app is not necessary to use the connects. It's only "if you want to" and I think it costs an additional $500 or so as a one time purchase. When I go to them I will not be buying the Connect stuff.

 

[FlyingNugget]

I don't have any experience w the RS4s, but I would say probably worth checking out the RE71Rs. From what I've heard they get pretty solid mileage for dual use and are quite quick and puns a track (they are 200tw). Depending on budget, I would also checkout the Michelin Cup 2s. They are great at the track, can be used on the street, and have good life. I run A052s on my Miata as summer and track tire and (like you) drive very few miles in general. They tend to wear a bit quicker though. Good luck.

The Re71r, or any other autox tire aren’t going to be ideal for hpde.

My re71r lasted 18 autox laps, and 1 hpde — at the end they were bald.

For street and track hpde you should run an appropriate endurance tire. I.e. not 1 lap wonders: re71r, rt660, ao52, rival s, etc. All of these tires overheat very quickly on the track.

I suggest running something like the RS4 or Maxxis VR-1. They will last a long time, have consistent performance throughout your session, and be decent in the wet. I expect these to last around 10 track days depending on the track and how hard you push.

 

[up4speed]

The Re71r, or any other autox tire aren’t going to be ideal for hpde.

My re71r lasted 18 autox laps, and 1 hpde — at the end they were bald.

For street and track hpde you should run an appropriate endurance tire. I.e. not 1 lap wonders: re71r, rt660, ao52, rival s, etc. All of these tires overheat very quickly on the track.

I suggest running something like the RS4 or Maxxis VR-1. They will last a long time, have consistent performance throughout your session, and be decent in the wet. I expect these to last around 10 track days depending on the track and how hard you push.

Thank you for the response! It's definitely along my thought process. The question is:
In your opinion, in the way I'm going to use the tires (HPDE and street. Very low street miles per year (Maybe 3,000), and maybe 5 or 6 HPDE/yr) would the RS4 last longer, or the MPS4S?
I know the tread wear rating on the Michelins states that they should last longer... BUT, if the Track days beat up the Michelins more due to their performance with the heat, that may change things.

 

[JerseyDrew77]

I'm liking what I see/read with the Maxxis VR-1.

 

[jay745]

Rs4's wear incredible and are very grippy once they get hot, They aren't the best in the wet though

 

[up4speed]

I'm liking what I see/read with the Maxxis VR-1.

Now I have to check those out compared to the RS4's as well, LOL

 

[bfury5]

Maxxis are 10% off if you're an SCCA member, so a set of VR-1 in 245/40-17 is ~$610.

 

[FlyingNugget]

Thank you for the response! It's definitely along my thought process. The question is:
In your opinion, in the way I'm going to use the tires (HPDE and street. Very low street miles per year (Maybe 3,000), and maybe 5 or 6 HPDE/yr) would the RS4 last longer, or the MPS4S?
I know the tread wear rating on the Michelins states that they should last longer... BUT, if the Track days beat up the Michelins more due to their performance with the heat, that may change things.

I think the RS4 will last longer due to it handling heat better than the 4s. The 4s aren’t really a track tire unless it’s raining.

I haven’t tried it, but I’m pretty sure you could destroy a set of 4s on a hot day if you push hard enough — where the RS4 will be more resilient.

The maxxis vr-1 is basically a slightly cheaper, and slightly less performing version of the RS4. The biggest difference between the two is that the RS4 stays more consistent throughout a 20 minute session. They both grip good(in the dry) and last a long time.

 

[up4speed]

I think the RS4 will last longer due to it handling heat better than the 4s. The 4s aren’t really a track tire unless it’s raining.

I haven’t tried it, but I’m pretty sure you could destroy a set of 4s on a hot day if you push hard enough — where the RS4 will be more resilient.

The maxxis vr-1 is basically a slightly cheaper, and slightly less performing version of the RS4. The biggest difference between the two is that the RS4 stays more consistent throughout a 20 minute session. They both grip good(in the dry) and last a long time.

I think I will try RS4’s next time I need tires. The only bad part is that it may be difficult to find Hankook around me. I think PepBoys is the only place, and I have trouble trusting that they won’t damage the wheels.
If I go With Michelin’s, I can get them from Costco, they have always been great! I may even try to get them to cover them under warranty, lol.
They may laugh at me, but it can’t hurt to ask! Haha

 

[FlyingNugget]

I think I will try RS4’s next time I need tires. The only bad part is that it may be difficult to find Hankook around me. I think PepBoys is the only place, and I have trouble trusting that they won’t damage the wheels.
If I go With Michelin’s, I can get them from Costco, they have always been great! I may even try to get them to cover them under warranty, lol.
They may laugh at me, but it can’t hurt to ask! Haha

I know a guy who works in a Costco tire shop. He tells stories of weird reasons that people bring back tires. I wouldn’t be surprised if they took them back after you roast them on the track.

If you get RS4, just be careful in standing water. They will hydroplane easier compared to the 4s.

 

[bfury5]

I think I will try RS4’s next time I need tires. The only bad part is that it may be difficult to find Hankook around me. I think PepBoys is the only place, and I have trouble trusting that they won’t damage the wheels.
If I go With Michelin’s, I can get them from Costco, they have always been great! I may even try to get them to cover them under warranty, lol.
They may laugh at me, but it can’t hurt to ask! Haha

You can always order the tires from tirerack and have them installed wherever you want, but that doesn't solve the issue of finding a trustworthy shop for the mounting. But the tires should be easy to find

 

[odessa.filez]

I've autocrossed re71r and recently installed Falken rt660, but haven't tested at autox yet.

I typically change each event due to extreme alignment, but sometimes I get lazy and leave 'em on for a couple weeks.

IMO the Falkens are noticeably quieter. Both are somewhat harsh ride. The RE71r were okay in the rain, though I tended to be careful with them on the street, as they wore down.

Both can be flipped, which is a plus for managing tire wear and getting the most out of them. I don't think the 4s can be flipped, but pretty sure you can flip the Hankooks.

 

[GTIfan99]

The Re71r, or any other autox tire aren’t going to be ideal for hpde.

My re71r lasted 18 autox laps, and 1 hpde — at the end they were bald.

For street and track hpde you should run an appropriate endurance tire. I.e. not 1 lap wonders: re71r, rt660, ao52, rival s, etc. All of these tires overheat very quickly on the track.

I suggest running something like the RS4 or Maxxis VR-1. They will last a long time, have consistent performance throughout your session, and be decent in the wet. I expect these to last around 10 track days depending on the track and how hard you push.

Listen to this guy. RE71R, RT660, Rival S are autocross or time trial.

RS4 is a fantastic track tire, but I don't think you can even find a set right now.

I'm probably one of the only MPS4S critics here, but I think they're a fantastic street tire, the best, but heat cycle out in track use, meaning at 50% tread depth, they lost grip.