2017 GTi PP at VIR

[bobivy1234]

If you want to keep 17" wheels, you could run Apex wheels and they clear the StopTech ST-40 355mm bbk.

Thanks and good to know, I got my RSe16 set from MIni7 here and the fitment template is a no go for the APR 350mm and others meant for 18", something to think about tough. This set fits the Macan Brembos without a spacer which is nice but doesn't help with these others, spokes are good but barrel is too narrow.

I do have a spare set of 255/40/17 Toyo RRs sitting here that I could mount on those and sell the others.

EDIT: Looking around at 6-piston 17" options, I'm really interested in the ProdigyWerks FS6 T1R 340mm retrofit race caliper and possibly even their own 2-piece 356mm x 32 if it can fit under 17" wheels. Already reached out to Apex to see if they fit under their SM-10s and covering in this thread: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...-brake-caliper-for-pp-retrofit-340x30.391775/

 

[Mini7]

Feedback for @bobivy 1234: We both run VIR and you will eventually run into braking issues on stock PP brakes as skill levels and speeds increase. For track junkies, a BBK is required for track work in a Mk7. Our cars are relatively heavy and depending on power mods, can achieve decent straight-line speeds. A couple folks have run into the limitations of the Macan setup on track. I’m not knocking the mod. It’s a good cost effective mod for many folks.

Wheel size will determine BBK size. Until recently 17” wheels limited brakes to 330x32 4-piston BBK’s. With Apex’s SM-10’s this has allowed 350-355x32-34 4-piston and limited 6-piston set-ups under their 17x9 SM-10’s. Getting a larger rotor under the wheel will provide better heat soak tolerance and improve pad and rotor life and give the driver the ability to run hard for the full 30-minute session

330x32 rotors will run hotter than larger rotors, impacting 4-piston sized pads life expectancy. If you can run a 6-piston caliper, pad life will improve by virtue of the additional pad material available. A 350-355 rotor mated to a 6-piston BBK that fits under a Apex’s 17x9, is the Goldilocks solution.

I really like the tire options a 17” wheel provides, but it limits BBK choices. Apex’s 17” wheels has opened this up to some larger 4-piston BBK’s and 1 or 2 6-piston options. Due to timing I decided to go to 18” wheels and a large 6-piston BBK. Large rotor mass and bigger pad.

The PW caliper definitely adds some versatility to those wanting to stick to 17” wheels. I would want to know what the differences are between the track/street spec?

With my move to 18” wheels my need for brake cooling has reduced and my focus shifted to the more immediate need for engine cooling. Having said that, I still feel that brake cooling is needed for tracked cars.

 

[GTIfan99]

Macan certainly has its limitations, it's more of a middle ground between PP and a real BBK. It was extremely cost effective for me, as I was able to sell my 5000 mile PP fronts for $550.

I'm hoping to figure out a piston return spring setup for these, that should resolve the feel issue, but they will never match a dedicated track focused BBK.

 

[bobivy1234]

Macan certainly has its limitations, it's more of a middle ground between PP and a real BBK. It was extremely cost effective for me, as I was able to sell my 5000 mile PP fronts for $550.

I'm hoping to figure out a piston return spring setup for these, that should resolve the feel issue, but they will never match a dedicated track focused BBK.

Thanks and yea I think I keep putting bandaids on this car, buy once cry once so I can enjoy my track days. If the PW answers I get back are good, then I'll grab that, sell the Macans and move on. Maybe you can try my ST43s for the Brembos that I only used once if that's where I end up.

 

[Mini7]

Tracking cars will invariably expose the weakest link. Mods are made to improve reliability, handling and speed. As you and the car get faster you may expose the same component more than once. It happens.

Hopefully I’m reaching the end of that cycle.

 

[FlyingNugget]

Hopefully I’m reaching the end of that cycle.

This is what we tell ourselves

 

[GTIfan99]

Tracking cars will invariably expose the weakest link. Mods are made to improve reliability, handling and speed. As you and the car get faster you may expose the same component more than once. It happens.

Hopefully I’m reaching the end of that cycle.

The other choice is to back off some. Not as fun as pushing for PB's, but at this point, I don't even use a timer and do track days for pure enjoyment. I'm getting old though. Lol.

Bobivy, you actually had good luck with the Macan calipers, you just didn't like the feel, correct? I can live with the feel.

 

[king526]

Feedback for @bobivy 1234: We both run VIR and you will eventually run into braking issues on stock PP brakes as skill levels and speeds increase. For track junkies, a BBK is required for track work in a Mk7. Our cars are relatively heavy and depending on power mods, can achieve decent straight-line speeds. A couple folks have run into the limitations of the Macan setup on track. I’m not knocking the mod. It’s a good cost effective mod for many folks.

Wheel size will determine BBK size. Until recently 17” wheels limited brakes to 330x32 4-piston BBK’s. With Apex’s SM-10’s this has allowed 350-355x32-34 4-piston and limited 6-piston set-ups under their 17x9 SM-10’s. Getting a larger rotor under the wheel will provide better heat soak tolerance and improve pad and rotor life and give the driver the ability to run hard for the full 30-minute session

330x32 rotors will run hotter than larger rotors, impacting 4-piston sized pads life expectancy. If you can run a 6-piston caliper, pad life will improve by virtue of the additional pad material available. A 350-355 rotor mated to a 6-piston BBK that fits under a Apex’s 17x9, is the Goldilocks solution.

I really like the tire options a 17” wheel provides, but it limits BBK choices. Apex’s 17” wheels has opened this up to some larger 4-piston BBK’s and 1 or 2 6-piston options. Due to timing I decided to go to 18” wheels and a large 6-piston BBK. Large rotor mass and bigger pad.

The PW caliper definitely adds some versatility to those wanting to stick to 17” wheels. I would want to know what the differences are between the track/street spec?

With my move to 18” wheels my need for brake cooling has reduced and my focus shifted to the more immediate need for engine cooling. Having said that, I still feel that brake cooling is needed for tracked cars.

Just for those that are interested in getting a BBK, Stoptech ST-60 with 355x32 rotors fit with plenty of room to spare inside of the 17X9 Apex wheels. I was running a 18" wheel before and always wanted to go down to a 17" wheel due to the cost of tires and the Apex wheels did just that. They put alot of research into these wheels and made sure the most popular of the BBK's fit.

 

[bobivy1234]

Just for those that are interested in getting a BBK, Stoptech ST-60 with 355x32 rotors fit with plenty of room to spare inside of the 17X9 Apex wheels. I was running a 18" wheel before and always wanted to go down to a 17" wheel due to the cost of tires and the Apex wheels did just that. They put alot of research into these wheels and made sure the most popular of the BBK's fit.

Yep that's awesome and Apex just confirmed they can fit the 356x32 ProdigyWerks 6-piston BBK in their 17x19" as well without spacers so lots of options with that wheel. I'm sure the Stoptech ST-60 is top tier, PW just wins out on price as I think all in it will be around $2500 for their track version of the caliper. Still trying to track down the exact pad shape being used in that to make sure there are plenty of aftermarket options.

@GTIfan99 Macans felt pretty good (no loose pedal or anything) but my concern is compliance and the heat in that system as well on heavy track use, I'm pushing this car as hard as I can stage 2 mainly on VIR and don't want brakes to be my limiting factor as I'm aiming for future TT and instructing. I'll feel better about that choice and let someone local grab the Macans as they are plenty good enough for all street and most track. My priorities have changed about monthly here but I'm starting to choose high and work backwards.

 

[Mini7]

Awesome! Good to know that the Stoptech 6-Piston BBK fits under the SM-10. Plenty of pad choices.
When I approached Apex to kick the project off, BBK clearance was one of the main criteria for the wheel.

 

[GTIfan99]

Yep that's awesome and Apex just confirmed they can fit the 356x32 ProdigyWerks 6-piston BBK in their 17x19" as well without spacers so lots of options with that wheel. I'm sure the Stoptech ST-60 is top tier, PW just wins out on price as I think all in it will be around $2300. Still trying to track down the exact pad shape being used in that to make sure there are plenty of aftermarket options.

@GTIfan99 Macans felt pretty good (no loose pedal or anything) but my concern is compliance and the heat in that system as well on heavy track use, I'm pushing this car as hard as I can stage 2 mainly on VIR and don't want brakes to be my limiting factor as I'm aiming for future TT and instructing. I'll feel better about that choice and let someone local grab the Macans as they are plenty good enough for all street and most track. My priorities have changed about monthly here but I'm starting to choose high and work backwards.

Makes sense if you're really going to be pushing the car hard.

 

[Mini7]

View attachment 232785View attachment 232786
Just for those that are interested in getting a BBK, Stoptech ST-60 with 355x32 rotors fit with plenty of room to spare inside of the 17X9 Apex wheels. I was running a 18" wheel before and always wanted to go down to a 17" wheel due to the cost of tires and the Apex wheels did just that. They put alot of research into these wheels and made sure the most popular of the BBK's fit.

BTW How do the Nakangs AR-1’s do on track?

 

[GTIfan99]

I'm interested to hear about the AR-1's also. I've had local guys with big cars run them locally and come away saying that the RT660 is faster and lasts longer. I wonder if fwd, slightly lighter would make a difference in that impression.

 

[king526]

BTW How do the Nakangs AR-1’s do on track?

I was running NT01's before this but in a 245/40/18 and I feel the AR-1's definitely hold up better lap after lap. But the AR-1's are not as forgiving as NT01's. So with the AR1's you need to be exact with you steering inputs where you can make corrections with the NT01's. However I was able to put do a PB at WGI with a 2:14 in October but that could also be due to the weather since it was a nice 60 degree day compared to when I usually go in July where its 90 degrees. I really doubt going from a 245/40/18 to 255/40/17 made the difference in time.

 

[king526]

I'm interested to hear about the AR-1's also. I've had local guys with big cars run them locally and come away saying that the RT660 is faster and lasts longer. I wonder if fwd, slightly lighter would make a difference in that impression.

Honestly with a-lot of these tires, the reviews mostly come from guys running cars either heavier than ours or lighter. I found out the best way is to test the tires yourself and see what suits your driving style and with our cars being FWD or FWD based. A lot of reviews don't work for us. I have went through many different tires in the past 3 years tracking from MPS, NT01, R888, Maxxis VR-1 and RC-1. I really liked the RC-1 in the R1 compound and wanted to get a set in 255/40/17 in the R2 compound but it was unavailable. Most likely when these tires are done, i'll get a set of RC-1's to try.